Former Oakland Black Panther Elaine Brown 2017 Deposition In The Matter of Elaine Brown v Desley Brooks

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Zennie Abraham note: this document (converted from PDF to .doc file and then inserted into the Zennie62Media Oakland News Online blog) is Elaine Brown’s account of what happened during an argument between she and Oakland Councilmember that happened on October 30th 2015. One that resulted in a civil court judgment against Brooks and the City of Oakland to the cost of just over $3 million.

SUPERIOR COURT OF THE STATE OF CALIFORNIA

COUNTY OF ALAMEDA

UNLIMITED JURISDICTION

*********

ELAINE BROWN,

Plaintiff,

vs. NO. RG16811619

CITY OF OAKLAND, DESLEY BROOKS, ESQ., In her Individual Capacity and In Her Official Capacity and DOES 1-50, inclusive,

Defendants.
__________________________________/

DEPOSITION OF ELAINE BROWN

February 1, 2017

TAKEN BEFORE DEANNE M. GOYKE

CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTER

STATE OF CALIFORNIA

C.S.R. LICENSE NO. 11413
Pizzotti & Jarnagin

925-416-1800

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INDEX OF EXAMINATION

EXAMINATION BY:
PAGE
Mr. McGee
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Mr. Siegel
178

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DEPOSITION OF ELAINE BROWN

Brown vs. City of Oakland Elaine Brown
2

Pizzotti & Jarnagin

925-416-1800

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INDEX OF EXHIBITS

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PLAINTIFF’S NO.
DESCRIPTION
PAGE
3
1
Printout of one color photograph
80
4
2
Printout of one color photograph
80
5
3
Printout of one color photograph
80
6
4
Printout of one color photograph
80
7
5
Printout of one color photograph
80
8
6
Printout of one color photograph
80
9
7
Printout of one color photograph
80
10
8
Printout of one color photograph
80
11
9
Printout of one color photograph
80

12
10
Printout of one color photograph
80
13
11
Printout of one color photograph
80
14
12
Printout of one color photograph
80
15
13
Photocopy of two receipts
80
14 “Housing Development Financing
Application Checklist”
80
17

APrintout of one color photograph
83
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BPrintout of one color photograph
83
19

CPrintout of one color photograph
83
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DPrintout of one color photograph
83
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EPrintout of one color photograph
83
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FPrintout of one color photograph
83
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DEPOSITION OF ELAINE BROWN

Brown vs. City of Oakland Elaine Brown
3

Pizzotti & Jarnagin

925-416-1800

1
INDEX OF EXHIBITS

2
DEFENDANT’S NO.
DESCRIPTION
PAGE

0 AGroup exhibit of color photographs

4
marked A-1 through A-12
109

BGroup exhibit of color photographs

153

5
marked B-A through B-F

6
C”Claim Against the City of Oakland”
153
7
D”Complaint for Damages”
155

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INDEX OF MARKED QUESTIONS

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PAGE 91, LINE 5

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DEPOSITION OF ELAINE BROWN

Brown vs. City of Oakland Elaine Brown
4

Pizzotti & Jarnagin

925-416-1800

1
DEPOSITION OF ELAINE BROWN
2

3
Pursuant to Notice of Taking Deposition, and

0 on Wednesday, February 1, 2017, commencing at the hour

1 of 10:07 a.m., at Oakland City Attorney’s Office, One

2 Frank Ogawa Plaza, 6th Floor, Oakland, California,

3 94612, before me, DEANNE M. GOYKE, a duly qualified

4 Certified Shorthand Reporter of the State of

5 California, personally appeared ELAINE BROWN, produced
0 as a witness in the above-entitled action, who, being

1 first placed under oath, was thereupon examined as a

2 witness in said action.

*********

CHARLES A. BONNER, Attorney at Law, of the

0 LAW OFFICES OF BONNER & BONNER, 475 Gate Five Road,

1 #212, Sausalito, California, 94965, was present on

2 behalf of the Plaintiff.

19

20
OTIS McGEE, JR., Attorney at Law, and SELIA
0 M. WARREN, Attorney at Law of the OAKLAND CITY

1 ATTORNEY’S OFFICE, One Frank Ogawa Plaza, 6th Floor,

2 Oakland, California, 94612, was present on behalf of

3 the Defendant City of Oakland and Desley Brooks.

25

DEPOSITION OF ELAINE BROWN

Brown vs. City of Oakland Elaine Brown
5
Pizzotti & Jarnagin
925-416-1800

1 DAN SIEGEL, Attorney at Law, of the LAW
0 OFFICES OF SIEGEL & LEE, 499 14th Street, Suite 300,

1 Oakland, California, 94612, was present on behalf of

2 the Defendant Desley Brooks.

5

6
STEPHEN STATLER, on behalf of EUREKA STREET
0 LEGAL VIDEO, was present.

8

9 Also present: Desley Brooks

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DEPOSITION OF ELAINE BROWN

Brown vs. City of Oakland Elaine Brown
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Pizzotti & Jarnagin

925-416-1800

1
PROCEEDINGS
2

3
THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Here begins video number

0 one of the deposition of Elaine Brown in the matter of

1 Elaine Brown versus the City of Oakland, venued in the

2 Superior Court of the State of California for the

3 County of Alameda. The case number is RG16811619.

4 Today’s date is February 1st, 2017, and the time on the

5 video monitor is 10:07 a.m.
10 The video operator today is Stephen Statler
0 representing Eureka Street Legal Video, telephone (415)

1 215-2041. This video deposition is taking place at One

2 Frank Ogawa Plaza in Oakland and was noticed by the

3 Oakland City Attorney’s Office.
15 Counsel, please voice identify yourselves
0 and state whom you represent.
17 MR. BONNER: Charles Bonner of The law
0 Offices of Bonner & Bonner on behalf of Ms. Brown.
19 MR. McGEE: Otis McGee representing the City
0 of Oakland and Desley Brooks.
21 MR. SIEGEL: Dan Siegel representing Desley
0 Brooks.
23 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: The court reporter today
0 is Deanne Goyke representing Pizzotti & Jarnagin.

25
Would all others please state their name for

DEPOSITION OF ELAINE BROWN

Brown vs. City of Oakland Elaine Brown
7
Pizzotti & Jarnagin
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0 the record.

2
MS. BROOKS: My name is Desley Brooks.
3
THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Thank you. And would the
0 report please administer the oath.

5
ELAINE BROWN
6
Called as a Witness and after being
7
first placed under oath by a Certified
8
Shorthand Reporter, testified as
9
follows:
10
THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Please begin.
11
EXAMINATION BY MR. McGEE
0 BY MR. McGEE:

1 Q. GoodQ. morning, Ms. Brown.
0 A.Good morning.

1 Q.We met briefly outside. My name is Otis

2 McGee. I represent the City of Oakland and Desley

3 Brooks in this lawsuit.

18 I’m going to be asking you questions today.
0 The questions that I ask of you as well as the

1 responses that you give are going to be taken down

2 verbatim by the court reporter, who is seated to your

3 left. At the conclusion of the deposition she’ll

4 prepare a booklet we call a transcript that you will

5 have an opportunity to review, and if you believe it’s

6 necessary and appropriate you can make changes or

DEPOSITION OF ELAINE BROWN

Brown vs. City of Oakland Elaine Brown
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Pizzotti & Jarnagin
925-416-1800

0 corrections to your testimony at that time.
2 You should be aware, however, that if you
0 make any such changes or corrections to your testimony

1 the attorneys who are involved in this action will have

2 an opportunity to comment on those changes in the event

3 this matter goes to trial. So if I were to ask you a

4 question today and you give an answer to a question

5 that says “No” and you later change it to “Yes,” we’ll

6 be able to comment on the fact that you changed your —
0 changed your testimony. So it’s important that before

1 you give a response to a question that you be certain

2 that you understand it. If you don’t, just let me know

3 and I’ll be happy to rephrase it.
14 It’s also important in order to keep clarity
0 in the deposition that only one of us talk at a time.

1 Please be sure to allow me to complete my question

2 before you start to give a response, and I will do the

3 same. I’ll make sure that you’ve completed your

4 response before I ask another question. If at any time

5 you want to take a break, just let me know. This isn’t

6 an endurance contest. The only thing I would ask is

7 that if there’s a question pending that you give a

8 response to that question before you take a break. If

9 you want to go talk to your attorney, go for a walk,

10 whatever, we’ll be happy to — to accommodate you in

DEPOSITION OF ELAINE BROWN

Brown vs. City of Oakland Elaine Brown
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Pizzotti & Jarnagin
925-416-1800

0 that event.
2 There may be times that I’ll ask a question
0 for which you don’t have a specific response. I might

1 ask you, for example, about a distance or a time of day

2 that something took place, and if you don’t have a

3 specific response to that question I’m entitled to

4 probe that question to get you to narrow it down. For

5 example, if I ask you a question about distance and you

6 don’t know what the distance was, I may ask you further
0 to try to narrow down the frame so we can try to get a

1 good estimate of your — of the distance from you.
12 I’m not asking you to guess. If at any time
0 you can’t answer a question without guessing, just let

1 me know because we don’t want guesses. We do want good

2 estimates, though, if you have — you have anything you

3 can give in that regard.
17 Have I gone over anything that you didn’t
0 understand — don’t understand?

1 A. No.

2 Q. Okay.

3 A. Excuse me.

4 Q. Would you — let me comment there as well.

5 There — it’s important for the court reporter to keep

6 a good record to make sure that all of your responses

7 are audible. Nods of the head, shrugs of the shoulder

DEPOSITION OF ELAINE BROWN

Brown vs. City of Oakland Elaine Brown
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Pizzotti & Jarnagin
925-416-1800

0 sometimes get confused in a transcript, so we will ask

1 that you make sure that all your responses are audible.
3 What is your — your full name, please?
0 A. Elaine Dorothy Brown.

1 Q. And, Ms. Brown, what’s your date of birth?

2 A. March 2, 1943.

3 Q. Where were you born?

4 A. Philadelphia, Pennsylvania.

5 Q. How long did you live in Philadelphia?
0 A. 21 years.

1 Q. And did you attend elementary school in

2 Philadelphia?

3 A. Yes.

4 Q. Secondary school?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. And after second — where did — where did

7 you finish secondary school?

8 A. Philadelphia High School For Girls.

9 Q. When was that?

10 A. 1961.

11 Q. Did you have any further formal education

12 after leaving Philadelphia High School For Girls?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. Where?

15 A. Temple University.

DEPOSITION OF ELAINE BROWN

Brown vs. City of Oakland Elaine Brown
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Pizzotti & Jarnagin
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0 Q. When did you first attend Temple University?

1 A. 1961.

2 Q. And how long did you attend Temple

3 University?

4 A. One year.

5 Q. Did you pursue a particular field of study

6 at Temple University?

7 A. I was an English major.

8 Q. Did you leave Temple sometime in 1962?
0 A. No.

1 Q. Was it later in 1961 that you left there?

2 A. No.

3 Q. When did you leave? When did you last

4 attend school at Temple University?

5 A. Oh, 1962. I’m sorry.

6 Q. And since leaving Temple University have you

7 had any other formal education?

8 A. Yes.

9 Q. Where?

10 A. I attended UCLA, Mills College and

11 Southwestern University School of Law.

12 Q. Let’s start with UCLA. Was that the first

13 school you attended after Temple University?

14 A. Yes, sir.

15 Q. Okay. When did you begin attending UCLA?

DEPOSITION OF ELAINE BROWN

Brown vs. City of Oakland Elaine Brown
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Pizzotti & Jarnagin
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0 A. 1968.

1 Q. ’68 you said?

2 A. Yes, sir.

3 Q. Okay. And how long did you attend UCLA?

4 A. One year.

5 Q. Until 1969?

6 A. That’s correct, sir.

7 Q. And did you pursue a major course of study

8 at UCLA?
0 A. English major.

1 Q. Did you receive a degree or certificate from

2 UCLA?

3 A. No.

4 Q. And you next attended Mills College; is that

5 correct?

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. When did you begin attending Mills College?

8 A. 1972.

9 Q. How long did you go to Mills College?

10 A. About a year.

11 Q. Until sometime in 1973 or so?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. Okay. And what course of study did you

14 pursue there?

15 A. English major.

DEPOSITION OF ELAINE BROWN

Brown vs. City of Oakland Elaine Brown
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Pizzotti & Jarnagin
925-416-1800

0 Q. Okay. Did you receive a degree or

1 certificate from Mills College?

2 A. No.

3 Q. What school did you next attend?

4 A. Southwestern University School of Law.

5 Q. When did you begin attending Southwestern

6 school of law?

7 A. I’m trying to determine the exact year. In

8 1980.
0 Q. How long did you attend Southwestern School

1 of Law?

2 A. Three years.

3 Q. Until sometime in 1983?

4 A. Yes, sir. Pardon me.

5 Q. Did you complete your course of study at

6 Southwestern School of Law?

7 A. No.

8 Q. Since leaving — strike that.
19 Did you receive a degree or certificate from
0 Southwestern?

1 A. No.

2 Q. Have you ever taken the California bar exam?

3 A. No.

4 Q. And you’re not admitted to practice law in

5 California?

DEPOSITION OF ELAINE BROWN

Brown vs. City of Oakland Elaine Brown
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Pizzotti & Jarnagin
925-416-1800

0 A. No.

1 Q. And you never have been?

2 A. No, sir.

3 Q. Okay. Since leaving — strike that.
5 Is Southwestern School of Law in Los
0 Angeles?

1 A. Yes, sir.

2 Q. Okay. Since leaving Southwestern School of

3 Law in approximately 1983, have you received any
0 further formal education?

1 A. No.

2 Q. Now, after leaving Temple University in

3 1962, what was the first job that you had?

4 A. At the Philadelphia Electric Company.

5 Q. When did you go to work for Philadelphia

6 Electric Company?

7 A. The same year, 1962.

8 Q. How long did you work there?

9 A. Two years.

10 Q. And what was your last job for the

11 Philadelphia Electric Company?

12 A. Customer service representative.

13 Q. Was that in Philadelphia?

14 A. Yes.

15 Q. And after leaving the Philadelphia Electric

DEPOSITION OF ELAINE BROWN

Brown vs. City of Oakland Elaine Brown
15
Pizzotti & Jarnagin
925-416-1800

0 Company in approximately 1964, what was your next job?

1 A. I moved to California, and my next job was

2 as a door-to-door salesperson.

3 Q. I’m sorry?

4 A. Door-to-door salesperson.

5 Q. Who were you working for?

6 A. Parents Magazine Encyclopedia.

7 Q. How long did you do that?

8 A. Approximately one year.
0 Q. Does that take us to sometime around 1965?

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. What was your next job after leaving Parents

3 Magazine and Encyclopedia?

4 A. I was a cocktail waitress.

5 Q. Where?

6 A. I’m sorry?

7 Q. Where?

8 A. At a club called The Pink Pussycat in Los

9 Angeles.

10 Q. How long did you work for The Pink Pussycat

11 in Los Angeles?

12 A. Approximately six months.

13 Q. And what was your next job after that?

14 A. I worked at UCLA.

15 Q. Is this also sometime in 1965?

DEPOSITION OF ELAINE BROWN

Brown vs. City of Oakland Elaine Brown
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Pizzotti & Jarnagin
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0 A. No.

1 Q. When? When is this?

2 A. 1967.

3 Q. Was there a time — period of time between

4 you last working for The Pink Pussycat in Los Angeles

5 and you going to work for UCLA that you were not

6 working?

7 A. That’s correct.

8 Q. What were you — what period of time was
0 that?

1 A. Approximately a year and a half to two

2 years.

3 Q. What were you doing during that time?

4 A. Writing songs and — writing songs.

5 Q. Were any of them published?

6 A. Ultimately.

7 Q. Okay. How many were published?

8 A. Of those songs I would say ten.

9 Q. Do you remember what label they were

10 published on?

11 A. Vault Music.

12 Q. Bulk?

13 A. Vault, V-a-u-l-t.

14 Q. Okay. You went to work for UCLA in

15 approximately 1967. What did you do for UCLA at that

DEPOSITION OF ELAINE BROWN

Brown vs. City of Oakland Elaine Brown
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Pizzotti & Jarnagin
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0 time?

1 A. General clerical work.

2 Q. Why did you stop working for Parents

3 Magazine and Encyclopedia?

4 A. It was a very difficult job to — it was all

5 commission, 100 percent commission, so I was not doing

6 well at a certain period. I was evicted.

7 Q. You were what?

8 A. I was evicted from the place where I lived,
0 so I wasn’t making any money.

1 Q. Was this in Los Angeles?

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. And why did you stop working for The Pink

4 Pussycat in Los Angeles?

5 A. Because I had — I was cohabiting with

6 someone who was taking care of my daily life.

7 Q. And as a result of that relationship did

8 that make it unnecessary for you to work at The Pink

9 Pussycat or was there some other reason you left there?

10 A. That was the reason.

11 Q. When you began working for UCLA doing

12 general clerical work, what department were you working

13 in?

14 A. I really can’t recall.

15 Q. Okay. How long did you do that general

DEPOSITION OF ELAINE BROWN

Brown vs. City of Oakland Elaine Brown
18
Pizzotti & Jarnagin
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0 clerical work?

1 A. I would say six months.

2 Q. And after that six-month period did you

3 continue working for UCLA?

4 A. No.

5 Q. What did you do — what did you do next?

6 A. I had a job at a poverty program in Watts,

7 California.

8 Q. What did you do for the poverty program?
0 A. Clerical work.

1 Q. How long did you do that?

2 A. Probably six months.

3 Q. Why did you leave UCLA?

4 A. I really can’t recall. Maybe just took

5 another job.

6 Q. And what was your next job after working for

7 the poverty program in Watts?

8 A. I didn’t have a job for a very long time

9 after that.

10 Q. What period — how long a period of time?

11 A. Ten years.

12 Q. Why did you leave the poverty program?

13 A. I joined the Black Panther Party.

14 Q. And when you joined the Black Panther Party,

15 did you join in a particular — particular role?

DEPOSITION OF ELAINE BROWN

Brown vs. City of Oakland Elaine Brown
19
Pizzotti & Jarnagin
925-416-1800

0 A. No.

1 Q. In what way did joining the Black Panther

2 Party interfere or impede your ability to work for the

3 poverty program in Watts?
5 MR. BONNER: I’m going to object as assuming
0 a fact that hasn’t been established, namely that there

1 was this interference.

8
But you can answer the question if you —
9
MR. McGEE: I’m sorry, that was the what?
10
MR. BONNER: That there was that
0 interference with her position at Watts.

12
But you can answer that — that question.
13
MR. McGEE: Okay.
14
THE WITNESS: Would you mind repeating the
0 question?

1 BY MR. McGEE:

2 Q. Yeah. Sure. Let me rephrase it because I

3 asked that question because of an earlier response you

4 gave. I asked why you left the poverty program in

5 Watts.

6 A. Yeah.

7 Q. And you said it was because you joined — or

8 it was at the time you joined the Black Panther Party.

9 My question is whether there was — joining the Black

10 Panther Party impeded your ability to work for the

DEPOSITION OF ELAINE BROWN

Brown vs. City of Oakland Elaine Brown
20
Pizzotti & Jarnagin
925-416-1800

0 poverty program in Watts?

1 A. Impeded is not the characterization I would

2 give it.

3 Q. What characterization would you give?

4 A. I would say that I was now fully committed

5 to being a member of the Black Panther Party and there

6 was no time to work at a — at the poverty program.

7 Q. And in what way did the Black — your

8 involvement with the Black Panther Party consume your
0 time so that you were unable to work for the poverty

1 program in Watts?
12 MR. BONNER: Again, I’m going to object as
0 assuming facts not established, lacks foundation. And

1 I think you understand the foundational objection, so

2 without having a speaking objection I will articulate

3 it if you’d like.
17 MR. McGEE: Yeah, I wouldn’t mind you doing
0 so because —
19 MR. BONNER: Okay. Well, can we have the
0 question read back, please.

21
(Whereupon, the record was read.)
22
MR. BONNER: The objection is that consuming
0 the time made her unable to work for the Black

1 Panther — to work for the poverty program. Those

2 things are not necessarily related.

DEPOSITION OF ELAINE BROWN

Brown vs. City of Oakland Elaine Brown
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Pizzotti & Jarnagin

925-416-1800

1
But you can answer the question.
2
THE WITNESS: Well, would you mind repeating

0 the question again.

1 BY MR. McGEE:

2 Q. I’ll ask —

3 A. I’m really sorry.

4 Q. I’ll ask a different question.

5 A. All right.

6 Q. When you began working with the Black
0 Panther Party what was your role?

1 A. I was what we would call a rank-and-file

2 member.

3 Q. What did that entail?

4 A. Performing whatever tasks were asked of me

5 by those above me.

6 Q. When you say those above you, were you —

7 when you went into the Black Panther Party were you

8 assigned a particular role whereby there were

9 individuals above you that you reported to?

10 A. Not a particular role.

11 Q. Then how was it that you came to know that

12 there were others who might assign you tasks?

13 A. I was told what section I would work in and

14 who the people were to whom I would report.

15 Q. You were told what section you would work

DEPOSITION OF ELAINE BROWN

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0 in?

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. What section was that?

3 A. In — in Los Angeles. At that time I want

4 to say the west side as we called it.

5 Q. The west side of Los Angeles?

6 A. Yes.

7 Q. Okay. Did that include Watts?

8 A. No.
0 Q. What — what area did it — geographical

1 area did it include?

2 A. Well, what was deemed the west side was an

3 area you could call the Crenshaw area.

4 Q. And to whom did you report when you worked

5 on the west side of Los Angeles for the Black Panther

6 Party?

7 A. Ericka Huggins.

8 Q. And what was Ericka Huggins’ role?

9 A. At that time captain.

10 Q. Was captain a rank that Ericka Huggins held

11 within the Black Panther Party?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. All right. Did you at the time you went

14 into the Black Panther Party have a rank?

15 A. No.

DEPOSITION OF ELAINE BROWN

Brown vs. City of Oakland Elaine Brown
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0 Q. Did you ever have a rank?

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. When did you first have a rank within the

3 Black Panther Party?

4 A. I would say 1969.

5 Q. And what rank was that?

6 A. Deputy minister of information.

7 Q. Okay. And as the deputy minister of

8 information, what was your responsibility?
0 A. I would like to add for the Southern

1 California chapter. My primary responsibility was to

2 write articles and other materials that we would

3 publish from the Southern California chapter.

4 BY MR. McGEE:

5 Q. And did you in fact write articles and

6 materials for publication?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. How long did you hold the rank of deputy

9 minister of information for the Southern California

10 chapter within the Black Panther Party?

11 A. I would say until 1971.

12 Q. And what happened at that time?

13 A. I was ordered to move to Oakland,

14 California, to edit the Black Panther Party national

15 newspaper.

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0 Q. And did you in fact move to Oakland at that

1 time?

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. And did — when you moved to Oakland — and

4 that would be sometime around 1971, correct?

5 A. That’s correct.

6 Q. Did you continue in your role as deputy

7 minister of information?

8 A. No.
0 Q. What was your rank or role at that time?

1 A. My role was editor of the Black Panther

2 Party Newspaper.

3 Q. I may not have asked this or you may have

4 answered and I didn’t hear it. During the time that

5 you were deputy minister of information for the

6 Southern California chapter, who did you report to?

7 A. I reported to Geronimo Pratt.

8 Q. I’m sorry?

9 A. Geronimo Pratt. I’m sorry.

10 Q. And did you continue reporting to Geronimo

11 Pratt until 1971?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. Okay. And when you moved to Oakland and

14 became the editor of the Black Panther Party News, to

15 whom did you report?

DEPOSITION OF ELAINE BROWN

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0 A. The central committee.

1 Q. Was there anyone in particular on the

2 central committee that you reported to?

3 A. No.

4 Q. How long did you continue in your role as

5 editor of the Black Panther Party News?

6 A. Until 1972.

7 Q. And what happened at that time?

8 A. I was — I became the minister of
0 information in the Black Panther Party.

1 Q. Minister of information?

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. And what were — what did your duties become

4 when you assumed the role of minister of information

5 for the Black Panther Party?

6 A. Well, I oversaw all of the publications of

7 materials that the Party made, including the newspaper

8 and the other materials that were — that were issued

9 by the Party nationally.

10 Q. Did you actually author any of those

11 publications and materials?

12 A. Yes.

13 Q. How long did you work in that capacity?

14 A. Until 1974.

15 Q. And during the two years that you served as

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0 the minister of information for the Black Panther

1 Party, did you continue reporting to the central

2 committee?

3 A. I was a member of the central committee, and

4 I did report to the committee.

5 Q. Okay. And what happened in 1974?

6 A. I was — I became the chairman of the Black

7 Panther Party.

8 Q. How did you become the chairman of the Black
0 Panther Party? And by that I mean was this a position

1 to which you were appointed, elected or what was the

2 process by which you became chairman?

3 A. Appointed.

4 Q. Appointed by whom?

5 A. I was appointed.

6 Q. By whom?

7 A. By the leader of the Black Panther Party,

8 Huey P. Newton.

9 Q. And with your appointment as the chair of

10 the Black Panther Party, what did your duties become?

11 What did your role become in the party?

12 A. I was the highest ranking leader of the

13 Black Panther Party.

14 Q. Have you ever told anyone that — and I’ll

15 quote it. Have you ever told anyone, quote, I start

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0 shit wherever I go, close quote?

1 A. No.

2 Q. Anything that you recall having said to that

3 effect, that you, quote, start —

4 A. I do not recall.

5 Q. Pardon me?

6 A. I’m sorry. Excuse me.

7 Q. Yeah. Let me just finish the question.

8 A. Yes, sir.
0 Q. Your answer may not be any different. But

1 do you recall having ever told anyone — let me — let

2 me strike that and ask a different question.
13 Do you recall having ever told a reporter
0 that, quote, you start shit wherever you go, close

1 quote?
16 MR. BONNER: And I’m going to object, asked
0 and answered. She indicated she didn’t recall, but

1 that’s a slightly different question.
19 Do you recall ever saying that to a
0 reporter?
21 THE WITNESS: No.
0 BY MR. McGEE:

1 Q. Okay. Let me ask it in a more specific

2 context. Do you recall having a discussion with anyone

3 in which you were discussing raising your child — let

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0 me — let me ask a foundational question.
2 Do you have any children?
0 A. I do.

1 Q. How many children do you have?

2 A. One.

3 Q. You have a daughter, correct?

4 A. That’s right.

5 Q. All right. Do you have — recall having

6 ever had a discussion with a news reporter or a
0 reporter writing an article talking about raising your

1 daughter that, one, you never spanked your daughter but

2 you think your daughter fears you because, quote, you

3 start shit wherever you go, close quote?

4 A. Well, that’s a lot of different questions.

5 So —
16 MR. BONNER: Do you recall any aspect of
0 that?
18 THE WITNESS: Yes, I recall part of it, but
0 some part of it is not true.
20 MR. BONNER: Okay.
0 BY MR. McGEE:

1 Q. What part of it do you recall?

2 A. That I never spanked my daughter.

3 Q. All right.

4 A. I’ve said that widely. And that —

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1 MR. BONNER: I think you’ve answered the
0 question, unless there’s some other part of it —

3
THE WITNESS: No.
4
MR. BONNER: — that’s true. Okay.
5
THE WITNESS: It was —
6
MR. BONNER: Well, there’s no question
0 pending just —

8
THE WITNESS: Okay.
9
MR. BONNER: It’s all question and answer.
10
MR. McGEE: I’ll come back to it.
0 BY MR. McGEE:

1 Q. How long did you continue your role as chair

2 of the Black Panther Party?

3 A. For three years.

4 Q. Until sometime around 1977?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. And what happened at that time?

7 A. I left the Black Panther Party.

8 Q. Why?

9 A. I felt it was not going in a direction that

10 I could continue to adhere to.

11 Q. Can you describe generally the direction

12 that the party had been going in prior to you making

13 the decision to leave?
25 (Whereupon, Ms. Warren entered the

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0 proceedings.)
2 THE WITNESS: We had been trying to create a
0 revolutionary base in the City of Oakland.

1 BY MR. McGEE:

2 Q. And was there a time when during your tenure

3 as chair of the Black Panther Party that you believe

4 the party was going in that direction?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. All right. And what happened to change
0 that?

1 A. Any number of things happened to change it.

2 I don’t know how to answer that question with a

3 specific one word or one — one answer.

4 Q. Okay. Can you give me some examples of what

5 cha — the changes in that direction?

6 A. Yes. There was a refocus on activities that

7 did not go to where we were. We had successfully

8 gotten a black mayor elected and had other

9 opportunities to continue to build our base, and I felt

10 they were being undermined by other activities.
21 MR. McGEE: Would you read back the last
0 response, please.
23 (Whereupon, the record was read.)
0 BY MR. McGEE:

1 Q. The black mayor you’re referring to is

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0 Lionel Wilson, correct?

1 A. Yes.

2 Q. All right. What were the activities that

3 took place following Lionel Wilson’s election that you

4 believe were not going in the direction that you

5 believe the Black Panther Party should be moving in?

6 A. There were — when — there were men who

7 were doing dysfunctional things with our facilities.

8 For example, we had a club called The Lamp Post. It
0 was a nightclub or a place where people ate and drank

1 and what-have-you, and they were just abusing the

2 privilege by drinking after hours and basically

3 becoming very uncontrollable.

4 Q. When did you first meet Desley Brooks?

5 A. I would say I met Ms. Brooks with David

6 Hilliard. It could have been ten years ago. I don’t

7 know.

8 Q. Do you remember the circumstances?

9 A. I do.

10 Q. What were they?

11 A. Mr. Hilliard had formed the Dr. Huey P.

12 Newton Foundation, and I was a participant in that,

13 even though I didn’t live in California, and he was

14 trying to secure a building to perhaps create an

15 institution for the study of the Black Panther Party,

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0 and he advised me that Ms. Brooks was trying to help

1 him locate a facility.

2 Q. You said you were living in — somewhere

3 outside of the area at that time?

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. Where were you living then?

6 A. I was living in Atlanta, Georgia.

7 Q. So David Hilliard contacted you, told you

8 that he was trying to form some organization or entity
0 related to Huey P. Newton and he contacted you to let

1 you know that he was engaged in those efforts?

2 A. No, that’s not correct.

3 Q. What — I may have misunderstood what the —

4 what the role was.

5 A. David Hilliard and Fredrika Newton, who is

6 the widow of Huey P. Newton, began forming something

7 called the Dr. Huey P. Newton Foundation right after

8 Huey was killed in 1989. I was helping them. I lived

9 at that time somewhere else, and from a long distance

10 we were organizing getting the building of — building

11 an archive and building up materials for — that were

12 about the Black Panther Party but the foundation was

13 called Dr. Huey P. Newton Foundation.
24 And at some point much later than the origin
0 of that foundation Mr. Hilliard was engaged apparently

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0 in conversations with Ms. Brooks about getting a

1 physical building where we could put our materials and

2 have an institution where people could come and — and

3 study the history of the Black Panther Party.

4 Q. And Mr. Hilliard told you that he had met

5 with Desley Brooks, who was assisting him in locating

6 or acquiring such building?

7 A. They were talking about a building, as I

8 understood it.
0 Q. So as part of this project that Mr. Hilliard

1 was working on, did he introduce you to Desley Brooks?

2 A. Yes.

3 Q. All right. Where did you meet her?

4 A. I want to say somewhere in East Oakland.

5 Q. Okay. And when was this? You said about

6 ten years ago from today’s date?

7 A. It may have been longer ago.

8 Q. Okay.

9 A. I’m really sorry. I cannot be very precise.

10 I’m estimating that.

11 Q. Well, Huey Newton was killed in 1989?

12 A. That’s correct.

13 Q. Do you remember how long after Huey Newton

14 was killed that this discussion took place?

15 A. I — I want to say maybe 1999, 2000.

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0 Q. Okay.

1 A. So maybe it’s longer than ten years.

2 Q. And how would you describe the introduction

3 of you to Desley Brooks in or about 1999 or 2000?

4 A. I can’t really describe it. I can’t recall

5 very much, other than meeting her.

6 Q. All right. Did you have some — did the two

7 of you engage each other regarding this project that

8 Mr. Hilliard was working on? I mean, did you have
0 discussions with her —

1 A. No.

2 Q. — about it?

3 A. Excuse me.

4 Q. Pardon me?

5 A. I said excuse me.

6 Q. Okay. I’m — did you have some dialogue

7 with Ms. Brooks as a result of the introduction that

8 had been made to you by Mr. Brooks — by Mr. Hilliard?

9 A. I don’t recall any conversation.

10 Q. After meeting Desley Brooks in 1999 or 2000,

11 did you form some relationship with her?

12 A. No.

13 Q. All right. Did you see her anymore? Did

14 you have any opportunity to interface with her after

15 this project that Mr. Hilliard was working on?

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0 A. I’m sorry, what —

1 Q. Let me — let me ask it this way: During

2 the years between 1999 or 2000 and October of 2015 were

3 there occasions in which you interfaced with Desley

4 Brooks?

5 A. Yes.

6 Q. All right. Can you tell us when those

7 interfaces or interactions began after meeting her in

8 1999 or 2000?
0 A. I would say when I returned to live in

1 Oakland in 2010.

2 Q. All right. Let’s go back to you leaving the

3 Black Panther Party in 1977.

4 A. Yes.

5 Q. What did you do next? And by that I mean

6 did you have an occupation? Did you get a job after

7 that or what did you do after 1977 to occupy your

8 working days?

9 A. I worked for Motown Records.

10 Q. Where?

11 A. Los Angeles.

12 Q. What did you do for Motown?

13 A. I worked in the office of Suzanne de Passe

14 as a creative consultant.

15 Q. Suzanne de Passe at that time was one of

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0 Berry Gordy’s assistants?

1 A. She was vice president of Motown.

2 Q. Did you have a specific title when you

3 worked for Suzanne de Passe at Motown?

4 A. No.

5 Q. How long did you work for Motown?

6 A. Two years.

7 Q. And during that entire two-year period did

8 you work as Suzanne de Passe’s assistant?
0 A. No.

1 Q. What else did you do?

2 A. I’m sorry, I worked on editing scripts that

3 were coming into the film division as it was evolving

4 under Susan.

5 Q. During the entire time that you worked for

6 Motown did you essentially report to Suzanne de Passe?

7 A. Yes.

8 Q. Why did you leave there?

9 A. The — there was a funding or financial

10 problem where employees — some employees were being

11 asked to defer salaries, and I could not afford that.

12 Q. Were you asked to defer your salary?

13 A. Yes.

14 Q. What did you do next after leaving Motown?

15 A. I enrolled in night classes at Southwestern

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0 University School of Law, and I took a job during the

1 day as an advertising salesperson for the I want to say

2 Los Angeles Herald Examiner, whatever the competitor

3 newspaper was for the Los Angeles Times at the time.

4 Q. How long did you do that?

5 A. Work at the Herald Examiner?

6 Q. Yes.

7 A. I would say eight or nine months.

8 Q. And what did you do after leaving the Herald
Examiner?

A. I took some temporary clerical jobs through

a temporary agency.

Q. And how long did you work through that temp

agency?

A. Approximately six months until I got a

permanent job.

Q. And were you working in the Los Angeles area

this entire time?

A. Yes.

Q. What was the permanent job that you got

after leaving the temp agency?

A. I was working as a legal secretary.

Q. For whom?

A. I cannot recall the name of this firm, but I

remember one of the partners that I ultimately worked

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for.

Q. Who was that?

A. Mark Moskowitz.

Q. Mark Moskowitz?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Was this in Los Angeles?

A. Beverly Hills.

Q. And how long did you work at that law firm?

A. I want to say a year and a half.
Q. What does that take us to? You worked —

you left Motown in 1979 so —

A. Excuse me.

Q. — when is it that you were working for the

Beverly Hills law firm?

A. I left Motown in 1980 when I started law

school. So at this point we’re probably in 1984 or ‘5.

Q. And what did you do after leaving the

Beverly Hills law firm?

A. I worked at another Beverly Hills law firm.

Q. Which one is that?

A. I can recall the attorney I worked for.

Q. Who is that?

A. His name is Jim Barrall, B-a-r-r-a-l-l I

believe.

Q. B?

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A. B, like boy, a-r-r-a-l-l or e-l-l. I can’t

recall.

Q. What type of work did he do?

A. Jim Barrall was a — did pensions for large

corporations.

Q. How long did you work for him?

A. Almost three years.

Q. Why did you stop working for the law firm

where Mr. Moskowitz was a partner?
A. He was really quite mean spirited to just

about everybody, and I couldn’t take it so I left.

Q. What sorts of things did he do that

demonstrated that mean spirit?

A. Screamed and hollered and cursed people out

a lot.

Q. Were there occasions in which he screamed or

hollered at you?

A. Absolutely.

Q. You worked for the next firm for about three

years you said?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. And so that takes us to sometime around

1988?

A. That’s correct.

Q. Okay. And why did you leave that firm?

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A. I can’t recall why I left, but I — I really

can’t recall why I left. I’m sorry. There was no

acrimony or anything, but I took another law job that

was actually a little bit better.

Q. Where did you go next?

A. I worked for a man named Dan Stormer.

Q. S-t-o-r-m-e-r?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Was he a partner in the firm that you went
to?

A. Yes. Storm — I think it was Litt and

Stormer. Litt. I’m sorry Litt, L-i-t-t, and Stormer.

Q. And what type of work did Mr. Stormer do?

A. He — civil — civil cases, tort cases.

Q. Was he a litigator?

A. I believe you would say that.

Q. And how long did you work for Mr. Stormer?

A. Until the end of 1980 — toward the end of

1989.

Q. So a year or so you worked for Mr. Stormer?

A. Yes.

Q. And why did you leave there?

A. I moved out of the country.

Q. Did you move to France then?

A. I did.

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Q. When was that?

A. I moved to France in November of 1989.

Q. What brought that about?

A. I had someone in my life that I moved to

live with.

Q. How long did you live in France?

A. Almost seven years.

Q. Prior to moving to France did you speak

French?
A. No.

Q. During your seven years in France did you

learn how to speak French?

A. I learned to speak French not very well but

certainly sufficiently.

Q. Okay. I was going to ask if you were fluent

in French.

A. I can live in France without too much

trouble.

Q. Okay. All right. And I’m sorry, you said

you lived there seven years?

A. Nearly seven years.

Q. During the time that you were in France did

you work?

A. No.

Q. Where in France did you live?

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A. Well, we had a place in three different

spots in France. A village called Groffliers,

G-r-o-f-f-l-i-e-r-s, which is in the north of France,

also in Paris and also in a place that was very near

Saint Tropez.

Q. And where did you move after leaving France?

And this would take us to, I guess, sometime around

1996?

A. That’s correct.
Q. All right. Where did you move then?

A. Atlanta, Georgia.

Q. What brought that about?

A. I parted company with the man I was living

with.

Q. In France?

A. Yes.

Q. How did you end up moving to Atlanta?

A. My daughter lived there.

Q. Did you live with her for a while?

A. No.

Q. Did you work when you moved to Atlanta?

A. I took some jobs in Atlanta.

Q. What types of jobs?

A. Temporary clerical jobs.

Q. During the years that bring us up to your

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move to Atlanta, did you earn income from sources other

than having a job?

A. Yes.

Q. For example, did you earn money from

writing, from writing music, writing books or other —

other sources?

A. Yes.

Q. What — what types of things did you do for

income during those years?
A. Well, for my own earned income I had a book

that was published during that time, and I began doing

some lecturing at colleges. I would go back and forth

to the U.S. to do that.

Q. And you were paid for those lectures?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. What was the book that you had

published that you referred to?

A. The title?

Q. Yes.

A. Is “A Taste of Power.”

Q. When — when did you publish that?

A. 1992.

Q. So as of 1996 had you published more than

one book, that book being “A Taste of Power” that was

published in 1992?

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A. No.

Q. Have you published any other books since

then?

A. Yes.

Q. Which other — which books have you

published to date?

A. A book called “The Condemnation of Little

B.”

Q. Any others?
A. I’m engaged to finish two books.

Q. Okay. When was the “Condemnation of

Little” —

A. B, the letter B, as in boy.

Q. — “Little B,” when was that published?

A. 2002.

Q. Okay. And what are the other books that

you’re presently working on for publication?

A. The “Biography of Jamil Al-Amin,” and a

non-fiction book called “Melba and Al, the Story of

Black Love in Jim Crow America.”

Q. Ms. Brown, have you —
22 Actually, why don’t we go off the record.
We’ve been going now for about an hour, so, why don’t

we take — why don’t we take a ten-minute or so break?
25 MR. BONNER: Okay. Good idea.

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1 THE VIDEOGRAPHER:. Going off the record.
The time on the monitor is 11:06.

3
(Whereupon, a break was taken.)
4
THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Coming back on the
record. The time on the monitor is 11:20 a.m. Please

begin.
7 MR. McGEE: Would you read back the last
question and response, please.
9 (Whereupon, the record was read.)
BY MR. McGEE:

Q. Ms. Brown, have you ever had your deposition

taken before today?

A. Yes.

Q. And what was the — how many times?

A. Once that I know of — that I recall,

rather.

Q. And what was the nature of the proceeding in

which your deposition was previously taken?

A. It was a criminal procedure.

Q. And were you a witness to an alleged

criminal event or were you a party to it?

A. Witness.

Q. Why was your deposition taken?

A. I was a witness.

Q. Okay. Do you remember the nature of the

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proceeding?

A. Yes.

Q. What was it?

A. It was a murder case.

Q. Do you remember when that was?

A. 1969, ’70. 1969.

Q. Do you remember who it was that took your

deposition?

A. The district attorney of Los Angeles County.
Q. Prior to this lawsuit, the one you’ve

brought against Desley Brooks and the City of Oakland,

have you been a party to other litigation? By party I

mean as a plaintiff, defendant or another related party

to any litigation?

A. Yes.

Q. And when were you previously involved in any

litigation?

A. In we can say 2004. I’m estimating.

Q. And what was the nature of the litigation

that you were involved in in 2004?

A. I was suing Kathleen Cleaver for defamation.

Q. And did — had Kathleen Cleaver made some

comment about you that you thought was defamatory?

A. Yes.

Q. What was that comment?

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A. That I was an agent of the FBI.

Q. Where was that litigation?

A. In Atlanta, Georgia.

Q. How was it resolved?

A. The case never went forward because I didn’t

have the money to pursue it, and so once she was

deposed and admitted that she was wrong I was

satisfied.

Q. Did you attend her deposition?
A. Yes.

Q. That deposition took place in Atlanta,

Georgia?

A. Yes.

Q. Do you remember who took it?

A. I can’t remember my attorney’s name.

Q. So after Kathleen Cleaver’s deposition was

taken during which she admitted having made the

statement that you sued her for, you dismissed the

suit?
20 MR. BONNER: That misstates her testimony.

She said after she admitted she was wrong she dismissed

the suit.

BY MR. McGEE:

Q. Is that — as —

A. What Mr. Bonner just —

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Q. Hold on just a second.
2 As Mr. Bonner has amplified on my question,
is that correct?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. Were you paid anything by Kathleen

Cleaver for that lawsuit?

A. No.

Q. Did you receive compensation from anywhere

other than Ms. Cleaver for dismissing that lawsuit?
A. No.

Q. Other than the prior litigation in

approximately 2004 against Kathleen Cleaver, have you

been a party to any other lawsuit?

A. Yes.

Q. What other lawsuits have you been a party

to?

A. Against the Waterfront Hotel in Oakland,

California.

Q. When was that?

A. I’m thinking. 2013, ’14.

Q. What was that for?

A. So some — an employee of the hotel

assaulted me.

Q. Do you remember the name of the employee?

A. No.

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Q. And how did that lawsuit — how was it

resolved?

A. It was settled.

Q. Were you paid anything for that settlement?

A. Yes.

Q. By whom?

A. The — a combination of the Waterfront Hotel

and whoever — whatever entity had then bought it is

the best I can do with how to phrase that.
Q. And do you remember how much you were paid

for that settlement?
12 MR. BONNER: Is that confidential? Is
that — was that a confidential settlement?

14
THE WITNESS: I believe it was.
15
MR. BONNER: Okay. Well, then I instruct
you not to answer that until we can actually get that

information, understand the terms of that. We will

supply that with you after I review the settlement

agreement and see — look at the terms of the

confidentiality provision.

BY MR. McGEE:

Q. Can you describe what the circumstances were

which resulted in you being assaulted by I think you

said an employee of the Waterfront Hotel?

A. Yes. My friend, Mae Gentry, and her fiance

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were coming through Oakland and stayed at the

Waterfront, and we had dinner that night and because

they were just moving on I drove them back and forth to

the restaurant, back to the hotel. This employee told

— we were saying good-bye and this employee told

Ms. Gentry and her fiance and me that we were being too

loud and we would have to move from in front of the

hotel.
9 She, as a reporter for the Atlanta Journal
Constitution, and her fiance, who was a — was the

publisher of the San Jose Mercury News immediately

launched into a — an argument with him about his right

to speak to them in that way. They were guests there.

They were angry and so forth, and they insisted on

seeing the manager. The manager was not available.

And after say approximately ten minutes of arguing they

just said they would see the manager in the morning.

And they went to the hotel elevator, and I went to get

into my car, which was parked directly in front of the

door, front door.
21 And this — this employee, who was — I
thought he had been the valet parking guy, but maybe he

was — I don’t really know what his role was. He was a

greeter, who knows, I have no idea, walked out behind

me and said — oh, he took a picture of my — of my

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license plate, and I asked him, Did you just take a

picture of my license plate, because I became very

concerned that someone would take a picture of my

license plate. And he took another one with a cell

phone. I saw the flash. And I said, Let me see that.

And he said nothing, and he walked back into the hotel.

I said, I want you to erase that picture. I don’t want

you to have my license plate number. And he turned

around and knocked me down, which was videotaped.
Q. As a result of him knocking you down were

you injured?

A. Yes.

Q. What injury did you sustain as a result of

him knocking you down?

A. Well, my head hit the floor pretty hard and

my glasses were broken and so forth.

Q. Your head hit the floor pretty hard, your

glasses were knocked off?

A. Broken, yes.

Q. And did you injure any other part of your

body, other than your head hitting the ground?

A. No.

Q. Did you injure your tailbone as a result of

that fall?

A. I was probably in some pain. I cannot

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recall all of the — all of it.

Q. Do you recall whether the employee with whom

you — who knocked you down gave a statement regarding

his recollection of the incident?

A. Yes, I think he did.

Q. Do you remember what he said?

A. Not exactly.

Q. Do you remember him saying — strike that.
9 Did anyone call the police as a result of
that incident?

A. Yes, my friends, Mae and her fiance.

Q. Do you remember her fiance’s name?

A. Why can’t — he was a publisher of the San

Jose Mercury News, and I cannot remember. Had been the

publisher.

Q. And your friend’s name was Mae?

A. Gentry, G-e-n-t-r-y.

Q. And she lives in Atlanta?

A. She did.

Q. Okay. Where does she live now?

A. I believe in the State of Washington.

Q. Okay. And did you talk to the police that

evening?

A. Yes.

Q. What time did this — this occur, anyway?

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A. I would say 11:00, 11:30 in the evening.

Excuse me.

Q. And you gave a statement to the police,

correct?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. Did you tell the police essentially

the same thing you’ve testified to here today regarding

how this event took place?

A. Probably so.
Q. And you said you are aware that this event

was videotaped?

A. Yes.

Q. And who videotaped the incident?

A. Apparently it was a videotape in the hotel

lobby, camera, security camera.

Q. Have you ever seen that video?

A. No.

Q. So when this employee knocked you down was

he approaching you to do that or how was it that the

two of you came into contact?

A. I asked him to erase the photograph that he

took of my driver’s license from his cell phone.

Q. All right. And was he standing in front of

you when you asked him that?

A. He was — he was walking into the hotel

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having taken the two photographs, and I walked behind

him.

Q. So was he physically walking when you had

this discussion with him and told him to erase the tape

— or erase the video?

A. He was clutching his cell phone, and I asked

him to let me see if he took a picture, and when he

turned he pushed me down.

Q. So he was walking away from you at the time
that you told him that you wanted to see what he had

taken with the — his cell phone camera, correct?
12 MR. BONNER: Object, that misstates her
testimony.

14
MR. McGEE: I wasn’t finished.
15
MR. BONNER: I understand.
16
MR. McGEE: Okay.
BY MR. McGEE:

Q. Let me just ask you about that particular

sequence. I want to try to do this frame by frame if

possible. At the time you asked him or told him to

remove or erase what was on his camera, was he walking

away from you?

A. I didn’t tell him to erase what was on his

camera.

Q. What did you tell him?

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A. I told — I asked him if he took a picture

of my driver’s license and I wanted him to erase that

picture.

Q. All right. And was he at the time you had

that — said those words, was he walking away from you?

Standing still? Facing you? Just what? What — where

was he in relation to you?

A. He was standing in the back of my car, and I

looked right at him and I said, Did you just take a
picture of my driver’s license? And he took another

one with his hand down, and when he took that picture I

said, You have to erase those pictures. And —

Q. Okay. At that — at that time, if we can

just hold that thought right there. At the time you

told him that he had to erase those photos was he

facing you? Walking away from you? Just what was he

doing?

A. Facing me when —

Q. He was facing you. Was he walking towards

you at that time?
21 MR. BONNER: Object, that’s been asked and
answered. He — she had testified that he was standing

still at the back of her car.

BY MR. McGEE:

Q. Is that correct? Was he standing still —

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A. Yes.

Q. — at the back of your car?

A. Yes.

Q. All right. How long after you told him

to — that he had to erase it that he ends up knocking

you down?

A. Perhaps a minute.

Q. And what happens during the frame of that

minute? And I’m going to be kind of precise here, if
you don’t mind, because when you say a minute I assume

you’re talking about 60 seconds; is that correct?

A. That’s my estimate.

Q. All right. So in the 60 seconds between the

time you tell him he has to erase that, what does he

do?

A. He turns away and goes and puts the phone —

turns his back and brings his phone to his chest or

something and walks away.

Q. All right. So after you tell him he’s got

to erase what’s on his camera or his phone, he turns

and walks away from you, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. How is it that he ended up pushing you to

the ground?

A. Because I asked him again and I walked after

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him talking to him and I asked him again to erase the

photograph that he had taken or show it to me.

Q. And at that time is he continuing to walk

away from you?

A. No.

Q. What’s he doing at that point?

A. He’s turning and pushing me.

Q. All right. So at some point after he walks

away from you he turns and pushes you?
A. That’s correct.

Q. All right. What does he push you with?

A. His hands.

Q. Both hands or one hand?

A. I recall both hands.

Q. All right. Did he still have the camera or

phone in one hand?

A. I have no idea.

Q. You don’t recall that?

A. No.

Q. You do recall him pushing you?

A. Of course.

Q. All right. And at the time he pushed you

was he moving towards you?

A. Absolutely.

Q. All right. And the next thing you know

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you’re on the ground?

A. That’s correct.

Q. All right. Did anyone ever tell you that

there was a — that the video that was taken in the

hotel lobby showed that at the time you went on the

ground he was walking away from you?

A. No.

Q. The police never told you that?

A. No.
Q. No. After the date of this incident do you

ever have any further discussion with this individual

that pushed you to the ground?

A. No.

Q. All right. How is it that the case was

settled?
16 MR. BONNER: Object, that’s vague. What do
you mean by that?

BY MR. McGEE:

Q. Well, was this — was the settlement — Pam

Price represented you in that action that you brought

against the Waterfront, correct?

A. That is correct.

Q. Did she handle the negotiations for the

settlement?

A. Yes.

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Q. Did you have any further face-to-face

discussion with anyone who was present at the time of

this — of the incident?

A. No.

Q. Had you — on the night of this incident at

the Waterfront Hotel had you been drinking?

A. Yes.

Q. What had you been drinking that night?

A. I probably had a glass or two of wine.
Q. Where?

A. At the Lake Chalet restaurant.

Q. And other than the lawsuit that you brought

against Kathleen Cleaver and the one you brought

against the Waterfront Hotel, have you been involved in

any other litigation before this action?

A. No.

Q. Have you had any other claims against

anyone, other than the matters that you’ve also —

already testified to?

A. No.

Q. Ms. Brown, have you ever been told that you

are — were diagnosed as being alcoholic?

A. No.

Q. Have you ever undergone any treatment for a

condition related to alcohol use?

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A. No.

Q. Ever been arrested for drunk driving?

A. Yes.

Q. Has your driver’s license ever been

suspended for an alcohol-related offense?

A. DUI is what it was called, yes.

Q. But was your driver’s license suspended for

that incident?

A. Yes, sir.
Q. All right. Do you recall an occasion in

which — or — or strike that.
12 Was the arrest for DUI did that follow an
occasion in which you drove your car off the end of the

road near the Bay Bridge?

A. That’s not an exact characterization, no.

Q. Okay. How would you characterize it?

A. I was — I took a detour because there was a

detour at my exit off of the freeway and I drove to

what was called the last exit before the toll bridge,

and one could go either left or right. I thought by

choosing the right side I would go closer to where I

lived, and it was a road that ended up being called

Radio Road. So I did not drive off of anything. I

drove onto a road called Radio Road, but I wasn’t

familiar with it and as I drove further I noticed there

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was some water ahead of me and apparently there is a

tide that rises there that there’s no markings for. So

in trying to turn around to get away from the water I

got stuck on the embankment, and I called 911. And

when I called 911 the Highway Patrol came out and asked

me had I been drinking and arrested me.

Q. What did you tell the officer after — when

he asked you whether you’d been drinking?

A. I told him I had been — had a drink.
Q. Now, at the time that incident took place

where you drove to the last exit off of the Bay Bridge

onto Radio Road was your driver’s license suspended?

A. At the time that I was driving?

Q. Yes.

A. No.

Q. Your driver’s license was in good standing

at that time?

A. As far as I can recall.

Q. Have you ever run for public office?

A. Yes.

Q. When did you first run for public office?

A. 1973.

Q. And what — what did you run for in 1973?

A. City Council of Oakland.

Q. Do you remember who you ran against, who

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else was on the ticket?

A. Whom I ran against?

Q. Yeah. Who else was on the ticket at the

same time for the same district that you were running

in?

A. There were no districts at that — I mean,

it wasn’t a district election. I cannot recall who my

opponent was in 1973 quite frankly.

Q. Okay. Did you win?
A. No.

Q. Okay. After the 1973 election for City

Council have you run for any other office?

A. Yes.

Q. What — what did you next run for?

A. City Council of Oakland.

Q. When?

A. 1975.

Q. And what happened then?

A. I did not win the election.

Q. And after 1975 did you run for public office

again?

A. Yes.

Q. When?

A. I want to say 2005.

Q. What did you run for at that time?

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A. Mayor of Brunswick, Georgia.

Q. Were you at that time living in Brunswick,

Georgia?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. And what happened then?

A. I was disqualified.

Q. Why?

A. On the technical — pardon me. On a

technicality regarding residency.
Q. Regarding what?

A. Residency.

Q. What — what was the argument against you at

that time?

A. The argument was that I had not lived for

the entire 12 months, I’d only lived 11 months and two

weeks or something, in Brunswick.

Q. And other than those three political

campaigns, City Council of Oakland in 1973 and ’75 and

in 2005 for mayor of Brunswick, Georgia, have you run

for public office?

A. I have engaged in a campaign to get the

nomination from the Green Party for president.

Q. When was that?

A. Not long after Brunswick, so I would say

2007 it could have been.

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Q. And did you get the Green Party’s

nomination?

A. No.

Q. Are there any other campaigns for public

office that you ran?

A. No.

Q. Did you as a result of these campaigns that

you’ve described, the two for Oakland City Council, the

one for mayor of Brunswick, Georgia, and the campaign
for the Green Party’s nomination for president, did you

become frustrated with public office or your efforts at

public office?

A. No.
14 MR. BONNER: I ask that — object that
that’s a compounded question. I know you don’t mean to

have it compounded. It just ends up being that way.

So you want to rephrase it, perhaps make it not

disjunctive.
19 MR. McGEE: I’m happy to do so. I think she
already answered, but I’m happy to — I’m happy to

ask the —
22 MR. BONNER: Well, you will accept the “No”
answer as to each of the two parts on either side,

that’s fine. We can move forward.

25
MR. McGEE: Yeah, let’s move forward.

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1 MR. BONNER: That’s good.
BY MR. McGEE:

Q. Have you at some point formed a belief as to

Desley Brooks that you don’t like her politics?

A. Yes.

Q. And what is it about her politics that you

dislike?

A. Some of the actions that she has taken,

positions that she has taken, and that I have concluded
that she is disingenuous in representing herself as

concerned with the interest of black people when taking

positions that I believe serve the disinterest of black

people.

Q. When did you form that belief?

A. I think when I returned to Oakland in 19 —

in 2010.

Q. And when you say when you returned to

Oakland is that returned to Oakland from Georgia?

A. Yes.

Q. Was there some matter or issue that was

pending after you returned from Georgia in 2010 that

caused you to form this belief or attitude regarding

Ms. Brooks’s politics?

A. Yes.

Q. What?

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A. This was during the so-called Occupy period

in around 2011.

Q. And what happened in 2011 that caused you to

form this belief?

A. Ms. Brooks was in the Oakland City Council

meeting sitting in her chair as a City Council person,

and when I got up to speak she asked me what I was

doing with all these white people.

Q. She asked you that in a public meeting?
A. Yes.

Q. Okay. Do you remember what the issue was

that was being discussed?

A. The issue in general — excuse me. That

night there was just a general discussion about Occupy.

I cannot remember everything that took place. It was a

very, very crowded and loud City Council meeting with

people all — you know, packing the house as it were.

Q. And did you respond to Ms. Brooks when she

asked you that question?

A. Yeah.

Q. What did you tell her?

A. My recollection is that I reminded her and

everyone else sitting on that council of how most of

the black, brown and women got onto the council was

because of the Black Panther Party that I had been a

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part of and that the whole notion of occupying had been

a tradition or had been a — an action established by

Dr. King himself so that it was certainly in keeping

with our general agenda for black and poor people

speaking of the poor people’s campaign.
6 There may have been a resolution or an
ordinance that was being passed, I don’t know if it was

that night or later on, but that she was supporting to

allow for police to be called in from other police
agencies in the area in the event that there was an

attempt to shut down the Port of Oakland as the Occupy

people had done.

Q. Okay. And this was a response that you gave

to the council and to the public at this City Council

meeting?

A. As to — yes.

Q. Okay. Since that City Council meeting

have — what was your next public — strike that.
19 What was your next interaction with Desley
Brooks?

A. I would say that there was a women’s group

that Pamela Price attempted to organize, and it was

supposedly about trying to create economic independence

for black women. The meetings were somewhat casual and

they were pretty much open-ended at — and taking place

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at Everett & Jones. And at one point there was a

discussion about what specific economic activity this

group could engage in, and I suggested there might be a

way to secure the train station in West Oakland, the —

that has been out of commission I believe since the

earthquake of 1989. It’s a beautiful building, and I

felt that we could together maybe pool our resources

and acquire, which so many other people wanted to, and

Ms. Brooks stated that — that I was lying to the
people who were there, there was no ability to get that

property, and some other comments to that effect.

Q. And did the dialogue — this is a dialogue

that took place between you and Ms. Brooks at one of

these meetings at Everett & Jones?

A. I wouldn’t say it was a dialogue.

Q. How would you describe it?

A. I would describe her having characterized my

remarks as not being truthful.

Q. Okay.

A. We didn’t have a dialogue after that.

Q. Well, during that particular meeting did you

say something to which Ms. Brooks responded?

A. Yes. I said I thought we could get the

train station.

Q. And she said something to the effect that

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you weren’t being truthful about the ability to get the

train station?

A. And that I didn’t know what I was talking

about.

Q. Okay. When did that meeting take place at

Everett & Jones?

A. Well, I’m going to estimate it was after

Pamela Price lost the election, which would be State

Assembly Woman, and when — that election was in
perhaps 2015 so we can — we can — I will estimate it

was sometime in 2015.

Q. And, again, the City Council meeting related

to the Occupy issue was a meeting that took place

sometime in 2011?

A. That’s what I believe.

Q. Did you during the period between 2011 —

2011 when the City Council meeting took place and the

meeting at Everett & Jones sometime in 2015, did you

have any interaction with Desley Brooks?

A. Not that I recall.

Q. Did you have any discussions with her during

that period of time?

A. Not that I recall.

Q. Going back for a moment to the Waterfront

Hotel incident. Do you recall there being any name

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calling that evening? Someone calling you or the

individual who pushed you, did you call him out of his

name or did he call you out of your name?

A. No, I don’t recall anything like that.

Q. Did you ever call him a little bitch?

A. Oh, no, I did not.

Q. And if anyone says that they heard you that

evening calling him a little bitch, they wouldn’t be

telling the truth; is that correct?
10 MR. BONNER: I’ll object to that as
argumentative. It lacks foundation what that person’s

motivation may have been for making such a statement.

BY MR. McGEE:

Q. You can answer the question.
15 MR. BONNER: If you want to answer the
question, go right ahead.

17
THE WITNESS: Would you mind repeating it.
18
MR. McGEE: Would you read it back, please.
19
(Whereupon, the record was read.)
20
THE WITNESS: That’s correct, as far as I
can recall. I don’t — yeah, correct.

BY MR. McGEE:

Q. During the occasion when you had the

interface with the California Highway Patrol officers,

would it be fair to characterize that event as you

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getting stuck in the mud, your car getting stuck in the

mud?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. During the occasion in which the

Highway Patrol came when your car was stuck in the mud

on Radio Road near the Bay Bridge, was there any name

calling that evening? Did the Highway Patrol, for

example, ever call you out of your name?

A. No.
Q. Did you ever call them any of the Highway

Patrol officers out of their names?

A. No.

Q. Did you call them white assholes who only

wanted to harass you because you were, quote, an old

black woman?

A. No.

Q. Did you undergo a blood alcohol test that

evening?

A. Yes.

Q. Do you remember what the results were?

A. No.

Q. Do you remember whether you were .13, your

blood alcohol level was .13 that evening?

A. I do not remember.

Q. Okay. Were you taken to Santa Rita that

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night?

A. Yes.

Q. How long did you stay there?

A. Overnight.

Q. Have you ever been to Luka’s Taproom?

A. Yes.

Q. When’s the last time you’ve been to Luka’s

Taproom?

A. Maybe six months ago.
Q. Did you ever get into an altercation with a

customer at Luka’s Taproom?

A. Yes.

Q. Can you describe the circumstances that led

to that altercation?

A. I was a representative for Kaiser workers

with SEIU United Healthcare Workers, and we had just

finished a big campaign against a opposing group, and

apparently one of the opposing group people — we had

won the campaign as it were, and one of the opposing

group people approached the table I was sitting at with

another person and asked me what it felt like to be a

scab. And I just couldn’t believe it.
23 And so the young man I was with we were
about to leave and I said, I can’t believe this woman

is saying this. And I was waiting for my credit card

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to be brought back to me because I had paid my portion.

He paid in cash. And I turned around and my friend had

poured a glass of water over this woman’s head, but the

manager seemed to think I had poured the glass of water

over her head, but I had not. And so then we left, and

when I went back they said that I could not return

because I had poured a glass of water over this woman’s

head.

Q. Have you been back since?
A. Yes.

Q. How did you resolve — strike that.
12 Who was it that said you couldn’t return?
A. It was — no, that — it was later when I

went back one time and they said, You poured this water

over this woman’s head so you cannot come in, we

don’t — you’re not welcome here.

Q. Did you resolve that issue with someone at

Luka’s Taproom whether —

A. I left.

Q. — or not — whether or not you could come

back?

A. I simply left.

Q. Okay. Have you returned since you were

advised that —

A. Yes. Yes, that was about —

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1 MR. BONNER: Take a breath. Let him finish
the question.

3
THE WITNESS: Okay.
4
MR. BONNER: Because she can’t — she can
only take down one at a time.

6
THE WITNESS: I’m sorry. Excuse me.
7
MR. BONNER: Okay.
BY MR. McGEE:

Q. I’m trying to get the sequence of events.
This incident takes place in which one of your friends

or colleagues pours water on another patron, correct?

A. Patron who had come to our table to —

Q. As you’ve described —

A. Right.

Q. — someone who had called you a scab.
16 You return to Luka’s Taproom on — at some
point after that incident took place, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. And when you returned someone at Luka’s

Taproom said essentially you’re no longer welcome

because of this water pouring incident, correct?

A. That’s correct.

Q. Did you resolve that issue with someone from

Luka’s Taproom so that you could again return to their

facility?

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A. No, I just walked away.

Q. Have you since returned to Luka’s Taproom?

A. Yes.

Q. And did anyone say anything to you about

returning after that when you’d been told that you were

no longer welcome?

A. No.

Q. Did you ever tell anyone that you believe

that Desley Brooks has a certain attitude about you
because you are, quote, more famous than she is, close

quote?

A. I don’t recall that.

Q. Did you make that statement to one of the

police officers who interviewed you regarding the

incident which brings us here today?
16 MR. BONNER: She just indicated she didn’t
recall it.
18 MR. McGEE: I’m trying to help her recall
it.
20 MR. BONNER: Well, does that refresh your
recollection?

22
THE WITNESS: No.
23
MR. BONNER: Okay.
24
THE WITNESS: I’m trying to seriously think.
Just give me a minute, if you don’t mind. I can’t

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recall anything like that.

BY MR. McGEE:

Q. Do you know who Officer Hardy is?

A. Yes.

Q. Was Officer Hardy one of the officers that

interviewed you?

A. Yes.

Q. All right. Did you tell Officer Hardy,

quote, We don’t agree on a lot of things and we don’t
get along but I think — I contend if I were to just

make a personal assessment that she has a certain

attitude about me because I’m more famous than she is

just to put it bluntly?
14 MR. BONNER: And the question is does she
remember making that statement?

16
MR. McGEE: That’s correct.
17
THE WITNESS: You’ve refreshed my memory. I
might have made that statement. I said I didn’t recall

making the statement.

BY MR. McGEE:

Q. Do you believe that Desley Brooks has a

certain attitude about you because, quote, you’re more

famous than she is?

A. I don’t think that’s a complete statement

that I would make.

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Q. Did I leave something out of that statement

which would make it correct?

A. As to what I think now?

Q. Yes.

A. Yes, you did.

Q. What did I leave out?

A. I think that Ms. Brooks does have an

attitude toward me because we have tremendous political

differences, in my opinion, and that she doesn’t agree
with me on a lot of things.

Q. How long have you felt that way?

A. Since I returned and saw her on City

Council.

Q. As you testified to regarding the City

Council meeting sometime in 2011?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay.
18 Let’s go off the record. I think this would
probably be a good time for a lunch break.

20
MR. BONNER: Sure.
21
THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Okay. This concludes
video number one of the deposition of Elaine Brown.

Going off the record. The time on the monitor is 12:11

p.m.

25
(Whereupon, a lunch recess was taken from

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12:11 p.m. to 1:30 p.m.)
2 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Here begins video number
two of the deposition of Elaine Brown. Coming back on

the record. The time on the monitor is 1:30. Please

begin.

BY MR. McGEE:

Q. Ms. Brown, did you review any documents to

prepare for your deposition today?

A. I did, yes.
Q. Pardon me?

A. Yes.

Q. What — what did you look at?

A. The complaint, the responses that we

received, some photographs. Yeah.

Q. Anything else?

A. Well, could be, but I just can’t remember

everything. If you told me did I see this, I might say

yes. I haven’t remembered it. I’m sorry.

Q. Fair enough.
20 MR. BONNER: And you mentioned a photograph.
I do want to supplement our disclosure with photographs

that she just made reference to, so you will have a

copy of that. Unfortunately, I only have one set, so

you and Dan will share this set of photographs.
25 The record will reflect that I’m giving

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Mr. McGee what should be 12 photographs of Everett &

Jones, and they’re numbered on the back 1 through 12, I

believe. And there’s another document that I’d like to

supplement our disclosures from the document production

request, and that is this document. I suppose we can

mark those as maybe Plaintiff’s 1 through 12 so we’ll

have a record of them. And this document is a receipt

from Everett & Jones. We’ll mark that as Plaintiff’s

13 to this deposition, and there’s — and the last
document, which will be Plaintiff’s 14, which is the

front page of the note — of notice of funding

application, which will be Exhibit 14. We can have

those marked and you can make a copy for Mr. Siegel.
14 (Whereupon, Plaintiff’s Exhibits 1 through
14 were marked for identification.)
16 MR. McGEE: All right. Let me — thanks
very much for producing these and for the explanation.

BY MR. McGEE:

Q. Let me ask a few questions about them. The

first group of these are photographs — colored

photographs which appear to be of the interior and

exterior of Everett & Jones; is that correct?

A. You’re asking me? I’m sorry.

Q. Yes. I’m going to ask you about the —

A. Okay. You want me to —

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Q. — photographs if you don’t mind. Take a

look at those. They were just produced by Mr. Bonner.

A. Okay.

Q. Have you ever seen those before?

A. I’ve seen these photographs, yes.

Q. If you need to go through them as I’m asking

the questions, feel free to do so. But do you know who

took those photos?

9
MR. BONNER: I took those photographs.
10
MR. McGEE: Okay.
BY MR. McGEE:

Q. And do these photos, Ms. Brown — why don’t

you tell me what they depict.

A. This first photograph shows the main es —

pardon me, the main entrance of Everett & Jones

restaurant on Broadway.

Q. And would you — would you just look at the

backs of those photos and confirm that they are

numbered —

A. Yes.

Q. — 1 through 12?

A. Yes, they’re numbered 1 through 12.

Q. I’m going to ask you questions about those

in due course and in doing so I will refer to them

specifically, but the numbers that are on the backs.

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A. Okay.

Q. Why don’t I take those back from you for the

time being.
4 And I’m going to show you the next group of
photos, and these appear to be copies of photographs

and they are lettered on the back A through F. A, as

in Adam, through F, as in Frank. And would you see if

you know what these show?

A. I don’t see B. That says F. This says E.
This says C. Oh, here’s B. I was looking for B.

Okay. Sorry to take so long. Okay. I see them.

Q. And do you know what those photographs

depict?

A. I do.

Q. What — what are they?

A. These were photographs that I took of my

body the day after the assault.

Q. Okay. And these are photographs that you

took with, what, a cell phone or camera or what?

A. Yes, with a cell phone camera.

Q. Okay. And you took each of those pictures

yourself?

A. Yes.

Q. All right. I may ask you about those as

well. Can I get them —

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1 MR. BONNER: And they can be marked as
Plaintiff’s — what did you say —

3
MR. McGEE: A through F.
4
MR. BONNER: A through F. Okay.
5
(Whereupon, Plaintiff’s Exhibits A through F
were marked for identification.)

BY MR. McGEE:

Q. I’m next going to show you a document that

Mr. Bonner produced, which is entitled on the first
page “Housing Development Financing Application

Checklist” and ask if you’ve ever seen this before?

A. Yes.

Q. And what is it?

A. It’s a copy of the date and time stamped

application that Oakland and the World Enterprises

submitted to the City of Oakland Housing Department for

funding under a notice of funding availability.

Q. Is this the — the first page of the NOFA

that was filed on October 30th, 2015?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Okay. And, finally, I’m going to show you a

document which appears to be a copy of receipts, two

different receipts, but it makes reference to something

having to do with NOFA on the first page, and ask if

you know what this is?

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A. I do know.

Q. And what — what does this show?

A. It’s two receipts, copy of two receipts for

— two receipts.

Q. Two receipts for what?

A. One was to a restaurant called the Jolly

Rogers, and I wrote this because I wanted to — you

know, when we file our tax returns these are things

that we file for Oakland and The World, so this was a
lunch that I paid for out of Oakland and The World

money.

Q. And why is that being produced?

A. It just happens to be on the same page, but

it does show that I was at the — this was the people

that I had — that we were buying lunch for while we

were preparing the NOFA that day.

Q. Okay. So there are two receipts on that

page —

A. Yes, sir.

Q. — what’s the other one?

A. The other one is a the receipt for Everett &

Jones for that evening at Everett & Jones that I paid

for my dinner.

Q. Okay. Thank you very much. I’ll have

copies of those made, then we can use them accordingly.

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1 And are the documents that we’ve just gone
over that Mr. Bonner produced for us copies of some of

the materials that you reviewed in preparation for your

deposition?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. You referred in your testimony before

we took the lunch break to a women’s group. I think

you said it was formed by Pam Price that met on at

least one occasion at Everett & Jones. Do you recall
that?

A. Yes.

Q. Did that group meet more than once, to your

knowledge?

A. Yes.

Q. Did you attend more than one meeting at

Everett & Jones that was called by that particular

group before October 30th, 2015?

A. Yes.

Q. Who else attended those meetings?

A. Well, the only people I remember are Pamela

Price. It was — and Dorothy King was there, and I

cannot tell you — I can think of some of the other

people and suddenly I’ve drawn a blank on some of their

names. Peggy Moore attended one of them. I can’t

remember. There might — I honestly don’t remember all

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the names because I really didn’t know all of them.

Pamela Price was inviting people there and most of them

I met in that gathering.

Q. Approximately how many individuals would

attend these meetings?

A. Between, say, 15 and 20.

Q. Were these all women?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. Was Desley Brooks one of the
individuals who attended these meetings?

A. I only recall her being at that one meeting.

Q. And the one meeting that you recall was when

there was discussion about the train station in West

Oakland?

A. Yes.

Q. All right. And other — and you — it’s

your recollection that she did not attend the others or

you just don’t have any recollection one way or the

other?

A. I don’t recall her being at any other

meetings, but I — that may be wrong.

Q. Okay. Did your daughter attend any of these

meetings?

A. No.

Q. Do you recall a discussion that you had with

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Ms. Brooks at one of these meetings during which the

name of your daughter came up in the discussion?

A. I don’t recall.

Q. Do you recall having a disagreement

regarding something that your daughter had said and

Ms. Brooks kind of sided or took the same position as

your daughter?

A. I have no recollection of anything like

that.
Q. You don’t recall one way or the other

whether it took place?

A. I don’t recall that it ever took place.

Q. Do you recall having an argument with

Ms. Brooks regarding Ms. Brooks having taken the side

of your daughter during the course of one of these

meetings?

A. Not at all.

Q. Pardon me?

A. No, I do not.

Q. Okay. Did Dorothy King’s daughter attend

any of these meetings?

A. Yes, now that you mention it.

Q. Do you recall a discussion taking place

between you and Ms. Brooks about Ms. Brooks taking the

same side as Dorothy King’s daughter?

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A. I remember there was a discussion with

Dorothy King’s daughter, her youngest daughter, and

some back and forth, but I — I really don’t have a

clear memory of it.

Q. Uh-huh. Would it be fair to say that —

A. Sorry.

Q. — you and Ms. Brooks were not really

friends at that time?

A. Not ever.
Q. And you never have been friends?

A. No.

Q. Have you been cordial to each other?

A. Yes.

Q. Have you offered to do favors for Ms. Brooks

on any occasion?

A. Not that I recall.

Q. Has she ever offered to do you a favor on

any occasion?

A. Not that I recall.

Q. All right. Was there a time — and I’m

focusing on the period between 2011 when there was some

dialogue between you and Ms. Brooks at a City Council

meeting regarding Occupy Oakland and the October 30th,

2015 incident that brings us here today. Was there an

occasion during that time span that you were undergoing

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evaluation or some other medical analysis regarding

whether or not you had cancer?

3
MR. BONNER: Objection.
4
Don’t answer that.
5
That invades the privacy regarding her
medical condition. That is way off —
7 MR. McGEE: Well, let me ask it a different
way.

BY MR. McGEE:
Q. Was there an occasion during that time frame

that you had any analysis taking place regarding any

doctor for any condition?
13 MR. BONNER: Objection. Unless it’s
regarding some conditions pertaining to the injuries

that she sustained in this lawsuit, it’s irrelevant.
16 MR. McGEE: Well, I can assure you that it
is directly relevant to a question that she just

answered.
19 MR. BONNER: No. I can assure you that you
won’t be able to assure me anything in that regard.

No, this is medical privacy, HIPAA, Fourth Amendment.

She has all the privacy rights —

23
MR. McGEE: Let me ask it another way.
24
MR. BONNER: Okay. Good.
25
MR. McGEE: Let me ask it another way, which

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goes directly to relevance.
2 MR. BONNER: Okay.
BY MR. McGEE:

Q. Did Ms. Brooks ever offer to give you rides

to and from your doctor’s office during that time

frame?
7 MR. BONNER: And that’s between 2011 and
October 2015?

9
MR. McGEE: That’s correct.
10
THE WITNESS: I spoke with her about Alice
Spearman, who was a mutual friend, and I may have

talked to her about my own condition because it was

occurring at that same time period.
14 MR. BONNER: No. But the question is did
she ever offer to give you —

16
THE WITNESS: I don’t recall.
17
MR. BONNER: — a ride? Okay. Then that’s
your answer.

BY MR. McGEE:

Q. You don’t recall one way or the other

whether you had a discussion regarding Ms. Brooks

offering to give you a ride to your doctor’s office?

A. I do not recall.

Q. You’re not denying that that took place, are

you?

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1 MR. BONNER: Objection. That’s
argumentative. She just told you she didn’t recall.
3 Don’t answer that. That’s argumentative.
BY MR. McGEE:

Q. *** Between the same time frame, 2011 and

2015, October 30th, 2015, were you ever diagnosed with

arthritis?
8 MR. BONNER: Don’t answer that. Objection.
That’s private medical information. It’s — it’s
private under HIPAA, private under the Fourth

Amendment, private under all the laws of the United

States going back to the Magna Carta. She’s not going

to answer that.
14 MR. McGEE: So you’re not going to allow her
to answer questions regarding her prior medical

condition, which may have a direct bearing on the

damages she’s claiming in this action?
18 MR. BONNER: Well, that’s a different
question. If — if you want to ask her about the

injuries that she sustained in this incident and

whether she had any prior injuries to that same part of

her body, then that certainly is permissible.
23 MR. McGEE: Okay. I think I’m entitled to
ask the question that I believe is most probative, and

I can assure you it’s directly related to whether or

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not she had any prior medical condition.
2 MR. BONNER: And I understand we have a
disagreement, so let’s move on.
4 MR. McGEE: So you’re not going to allow her
to answer that question?
6 MR. BONNER: I’m not going to allow her to
answer that question.
8 MR. McGEE: Okay. Would you mark that one,
please.
BY MR. McGEE:

Q. At — there was a time during your

involvement with the Black Panther Party that one of

the individuals you reported to was Geronimo Pratt; is

that correct?

A. Yes.

Q. How did you get along with Mr. Pratt?

A. I —
18 MR. BONNER: Do you understand the question?
Okay.

20
THE WITNESS: How did I get along?
21
MR. BONNER: Yeah. Okay.
22
THE WITNESS: Fine.
BY MR. McGEE:

Q. Do you recall ever having had any

disagreements with Mr. Pratt regarding your role with

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the Black Panther Party?

A. Are you speaking of the same time period

because you’re — you’re asking me a question about

when I reported to him.

Q. Well, how about during — at any point

during your — during the time that you were active

with the Black Panther Party did you have any

disagreements with him that you recall?

A. The party had disagreements, and I was part
of the Black Panther Party.

Q. The party had disagreements regarding what?

A. His — his role in opposition to the Black

Panther Party.

Q. One of your claimed damages in this action

is that you have suffered some form of emotional

distress; is that correct?

A. Yes.

Q. Prior to October 2015 did you suffer a

mental breakdown, nervous breakdown?

A. No.

Q. You never suffered a nervous breakdown?

A. No. I mean, if that is a clinical term I’m

not sure what that term is, but based on the generic

meaning I would say no.

Q. You’ve never used that term personally to

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say, quote, I, meaning you, have had a nervous

breakdown?

A. That is correct.

Q. Ms. Brown, I’m going to show you a book

entitled “A Taste of Power” and ask if you’ve ever seen

that before.

A. Well, as you know, I wrote that book.

Q. That is your —

A. Yes.
Q. — book?
11 Did you have any assistance in writing that
book?

A. No.

Q. Would you turn to page 210 and between

page — pages 211 and 213 there are a series of

photographs, right?

A. Yes.

Q. And going to the — I need to get the book

back because the pages aren’t numbered.
20 MR. BONNER: Okay.
BY MR. McGEE:

Q. 12 pages after number 211 there are a series

of photos, and if you’d read to yourself the captions

below those photos and let me know when you have

because I’m going to ask you questions about some of

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the wording of those photo captions. Actually, let me

ask you to do this: Since you got the first one right

in front of you, can you just read the first caption on

that page.

A. Are you speaking the top left?

Q. Yes, top left.

A. “Returning with Huey from my second trip to

China. I was named the party’s new minister of

information replacing Eldridge Cleaver.”
Q. Are those your words?

A. Yes.

Q. Who is the “I” that’s being referred to

there?

A. Myself, Elaine Brown.

Q. Would you read the caption on the lower left

page?

A. “Early former” — “formal school for Panther

children soon developed into the well-regarded Oakland

Community School. Among the students pictured here are

Ericka Brown, bottom row, far right; Geronimo Clark,

left of Ericka Brown, the son of Joan Kelley and

Nathaniel Clark; John and Ericka Huggins’ daughter Mai,

same row, far left; Al and Norma Armour’s son, Al Jr.,

second row, far right; Gwen Fontaine’s daughter,

Jessica, second row, second from right, and son,

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Ronnie, third row, second from left.”

Q. All right. It doesn’t refer to “I” in that

one. Can you refer to the caption for the upper

right-hand photo.

A. “I found it difficult to be a real mother to

Ericka Brown, whose love for me remained constant

nevertheless.”

Q. Those are your words, right?

A. Yes.
Q. And who is the “I” that’s being referred to?

A. Elaine Brown, me.

Q. All right. The lower right-hand photo,

would you read that one please?

A. “Stealing time together just before Huey

would go into exile. Here with Gwen Fontaine, second

from right, and Darron Perkins, far left, an unsung

hero whose sharp witticisms always reduced me to a

helpless state of laughter.”

Q. Who is the “me” that’s being referred to

there?

A. I don’t see the word “me.”

22
MR. BONNER: Right here.
23
THE WITNESS: Oh. Me, Elaine Brown. Sorry.
BY MR. McGEE:

Q. And you wrote that.

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A. Yes.

Q. All right. Would you turn to the next page,

please. Read the caption on the left-hand page.

A. “After Bobby Seale’s expulsion from the

party and Huey’s designation of me as chairman in 1974,

I ran for Oakland political office alone.”

Q. And the “I” that’s being referred to is you,

Elaine Brown, correct?

A. Yes.
Q. Those are your words?

A. Yes.

Q. All right. Would you turn to the next page,

please. The page — just turn the page.

A. Oh, turn the page?

Q. Yeah.

A. Not the opposite side?

Q. There you go. And would you read the

upper — the caption on the upper left.

A. “Huey and I spent the days alone together

during my one visit with him in Cuba in 1975, though he

lived in exile with Gwen Fontaine. It was there I

learned to appreciate that Gwen was not so much his

woman as she was my sister.”

Q. That’s your writing, your words?

A. Yes.

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Q. And the “I” that’s being referred to is you,

Elaine Brown, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. Would you read the lower left-hand caption?

A. “Only months after Huey returned from three

years of exile in Cuba, I suffered a nervous breakdown

and was forced to reexamine my commitment to him and

his party.”

Q. Those are your words, correct?
A. Yes.

Q. And is the “I” that’s being referred to as

having had a nervous breakdown, is that you, Elaine

Brown?

A. Yes.
15 MR. BONNER: And I’ll move to strike any
reference to nervous breakdown as part of her medical

history that is irrelevant, if and indeed it was a

clinical nervous breakdown as opposed to a colloquial

reference to a state of mind that she had at the time.

BY MR. McGEE:

Q. Let me direct your attention to October

30th, 2000 — 2015. Was there a filing of a NOFA by

you and your colleagues on that date? Did — did the

application or request for funding pursuant to the

NOFA, was that filed that day?

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A. It was filed on behalf of Oakland and The

World Enterprises.

Q. What is a NOFA, N-O-F-A?

A. It’s acronym for Notice of Funding

Availability.

Q. What does that mean?

A. It means that some agency, in this case of

the City, has said that it has a certain amount of

funds for a particular purpose that one can apply for
and see if you can be qualified to be funded for a

project that you may have.

Q. And how did you learn of the availability of

these funds?

A. Our project manager, who was our interim

co-developer, Ali Kashani, K-a-s-h-a-n-i.

Q. So did Mr. Kashani advise you that he had

learned about this — these NOFA funds possibly being

available?

A. It was public knowledge and he reminded us.

Q. And you and a team of individuals at your

organization submitted an application for that funding,

correct?

A. Our organization submitted the application.

Q. And it was timely submitted at 4:00 p.m. on

the date that it was due, correct?

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A. Yes.

Q. What is the status of that application?

A. I have no idea.

Q. Have you heard anything from the individuals

to whom that application was submitted since October

30th of 2015?

A. Yes.

Q. What have you heard?

A. The Housing Department staff advised us that
the Housing Department did not have the immediate

funding for the entire NOFA. Other people had applied

for money.

Q. Other people had applied for the same funds

or from funds from the same pot that you had submitted

application to as well?

A. Yes.

Q. And were you advised that because there were

other individuals who had submitted applications for

the same funds that your fund — your application

wasn’t being processed or what? What — what

happened — what was the impact of other organizations

having applied for the same fund?
23 MR. BONNER: Well, assuming facts that
hasn’t been established and you have about three

questions there. I understand what you’re trying to

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get to. Why don’t you rephrase it. It assumes there

was some kind of impact, and that’s a fact that hasn’t

been established yet.
4 MR. McGEE: Fair enough.
BY MR. McGEE:

Q. Who — who did you first talk to at —

strike that.
8 What was the organization to whom you
submitted the application?
A. The Department of Housing of the City of

Oakland.

Q. And did someone from your organization

contact that organization, that agency, to find out the

status of the application?

A. I’m sure we — we did, yes, someone did.

Q. Did you contact them?

A. I don’t — no. Pardon me. I was contacted.

Q. Someone from the Office of Housing contacted

you?

A. That’s correct.

Q. Okay. Who was that that contacted you?

A. Norma Thompson.

Q. Pardon me?

A. Norma Thompson.

Q. Do you remember when it was that Norma

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Thompson contacted you?

A. With respect to the funds being available?

Q. After you submitted the application or after

someone submitted the application on your behalf on

October 30th of 2015, you were contacted by Norma

Thompson, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. When did Norma Thompson contact you first?

A. It might have been a month or so later.
Q. A month or so later?

A. After October 30th of 2015.

Q. So sometime towards the end of November or

early December of 2015?

A. As late as maybe the early part of 2016.

I’m really sorry.

Q. How did Ms. Thompson call — contact you?

A. She at one point called me.

Q. Is that the manner by which she first

contacted you?

A. I’m sure she called me.

Q. What did she tell you when she called you?

A. She said that the seven-million-dollar NOFA

that the Department did not have the funds but it would

go to the City Council and make a recommendation that

all — that when the funding became available these

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would be the projects that would be funded so that they

wouldn’t have to keep coming back and forth and that if

we fulfilled certain other — crossed a few T’s we

would probably at least get into the pipeline for that

money when — and assuming when it would become

available.

Q. So to paraphrase that, Ms. Thompson told you

that the NOFA would not be funded to the full

seven-million-dollar limit?
A. No.

Q. That’s not what she told you?

A. No.

Q. I thought I understood you to say that she

contacted you telling you, one, that the NOFA would not

be funded to the full extent of the seven million but

that they would go to see about getting additional

funds and that your organization might receive some

part of that if you dotted a few I’s and crossed a few

T’s.
20 MR. BONNER: I’m — I’m going to object.
That misstates her testimony. Why don’t you re-ask her

what did she — what did Ms. Thompson tell her so we

can have a clear record as to what she said.
24 MR. McGEE: Okay. Would you read back,
please, the answer that Ms. Brown gave to my prior

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question, not the most immediate one but the one before

that.

3
MR. BONNER: Fair enough.
4
MR. McGEE: Pertaining to her discussion
with Ms. Thompson.

6
MR. BONNER: Yeah.
7
(Whereupon, the record was read.)
BY MR. McGEE:

Q. Did you understand by that discussion with
Ms. Thompson that the project that your organization

submitted would be funded to some extent when the

Office of Housing received the funding it would need?

A. No.

Q. What did you understand?

A. That we would be in the pipeline.

Q. What did you understand being in the

pipeline to mean?

A. Now that the NOFA was timely submitted we

were among those seven or so applicants for the total

of seven million. Some people asked for three million.

Some people asked for four. I don’t know. We asked

for 2.1 million. And that we would be in the pipeline,

meaning we would be among those considered for

recommendation, once they got the money assuming we

dotted all the I’s and crossed all the T’s and assuming

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that the City Council would accept this group

recommendation so they would not have to return for

each individual application as the money came in.

Q. Ms. Thompson did not give you any assurance

regarding the amount that your organization would be

considered for once it was placed in the pipeline; is

that correct?

A. That was not the issue. Yes, she did not

give me any assurance.
Q. Did she tell you what the I’s were that

needed to be dotted and the T’s were that needed to be

crossed?

A. Yes.

Q. What were they?

A. It involved the question of our CEQA

approval. CEQA is C-E-Q-A.

Q. Were you satisfied at the time you have this

discussion with Ms. Thompson that no one had taken

steps — between the time that your application for

this funding was submitted and the time you had this

phone call with Ms. Thompson, no one had taken steps to

interfere with your organization’s ability to be

considered for these funds?

A. No. I had no way of having any idea about

it, so the answer is no.

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Q. To your knowledge, as of the time you had

this discussion with Ms. Thompson had Desley Brooks

done anything to interfere with your organization’s

ability to be considered for this funding?

A. I would have no idea about that.

Q. You don’t have any reason to believe that

she did during that time frame, do you?

A. I just answered it as clearly as I can. I

would have no idea.
Q. Okay. So at some point after the

application for the NOFA is filed — I guess it was by

Lynn — Lynn Turner, correct?

A. It was delivered by Lynn Turner.

Q. And so at some point after it was delivered

for filing by Lynn Turner, you talked to him and

arranged to celebrate the filing at Everett & Jones,

correct?

A. Yes.

Q. Where were you at that time, at the time you

had the discussion with Mr. Turner regarding

celebrating at Everett & Jones?

A. At his company office.

Q. All right. And did you leave his company

office and go directly to Everett & Jones?

A. At what point? I’m sorry.

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Q. After you spoke to him and said —

A. No, not right away.

Q. — let’s go cel —
4 Okay. How — what did you do in between
that discussion and going to Everett & Jones?

A. I made copies — we made copies of the NOFA.

Q. Did you do anything else?

A. No.

Q. So how long after your discussion with
Mr. Turner regarding the filing did you actually go to

the Everett & Jones location?

A. I like to just add that I did call Ali

Kashani and tell him that we had timely filed. We had

gotten the bid on time.

Q. And after talking to Mr. Kashani did you go

to Everett & Jones?

A. Yes.

Q. About what time did you get there?

A. It could have been 5:30.

Q. And once you arrived at Everett & Jones —

you — you drove to that location, correct?

A. Yes.

Q. And once you got there did you find a

parking place?

A. Yes.

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Q. Where did you park?

A. Directly in front of one of the doors on

Broadway.

Q. Were you by yourself at that time?

A. Yes.

Q. You drove from Mr. Turner’s offices to

Everett & Jones by yourself?

A. Yes.

Q. And once you drove — once you arrived at
that location, who’s the first person that you recall

seeing?

A. Lynn Turner.

Q. Was he inside or outside?

A. Inside.

Q. Where was he inside the — Everett & Jones?

A. Sitting at a table in the bar area, front

bar.

Q. Pardon me?

A. The front bar. Excuse me.

20
MR. McGEE: Selia, can I get the photos?
21
MS. WARREN: Yes.
22
MR. McGEE: I’m going to ask that the court
reporter mark as a group exhibit the 12 photo — well,

this is not only the 12. Yeah, the 12 photographs that

you produced a short while ago.

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1 (Whereupon, a discussion was held off the
record.)

3
MR. BONNER: Go off the record.
4
THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Going off the record.
The time on the monitor is 2:12 p.m.
6 (Whereupon, Defendant’s Exhibit A was marked
for identification.)
8 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Coming back on the
record. The time on the monitor is 2:14. Please
begin.

BY MR. McGEE:

Q. Ms. Brown, showing you group Exhibit A-1

through 12, do any of those photographs depict where it

was generally that you parked on the — when you

arrived at Everett & Jones on October 30th, 2015?

A. Yes.

Q. The first one does, does it not? Does

that —

A. This —

Q. Does that show the vantage point from where

you parked looking at Everett & Jones?

A. It’s one of the two doors I was in front of.

I’m really —

Q. Fair —

A. I want to say it was the door to the right.

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Q. Okay.
2 MR. BONNER: And which photograph are you
referring to?

4
THE WITNESS: Well, they’re not numbered.
5
MR. BONNER: Yeah, let’s number them.
6
THE WITNESS: They’re not numbered, so I
don’t know. I’m assuming we’re looking at the same.
8 MR. BONNER: They’re numbered on the back.
It’s just very faint.

10
THE WITNESS: Oh, I see.
11
MR. BONNER. This is one, and this is two.
12
THE WITNESS: All right. I see. Fine.
Excuse me. I didn’t see it.
14 MR. BONNER: Yeah.
BY MR. McGEE:

Q. Let me direct your attention to photograph

A2, the second one —

A. Okay. Thank you.

Q. — shows two doors, correct?

A. That’s correct, sir.

Q. And is it fair to say that you were parked

near one of those two doors?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. All right. Which one do you recall being

parked closest to, the one on the left or —

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A. The one on the right.

Q. The one on the right?

A. Yeah.

Q. Okay. And let me ask you to go through

those photographs until you get to the ones that show

the inside of Everett & Jones, and I think the first of

those is number five.

A. Yes.

Q. Now, does photograph A-5 —
A. Excuse me.

Q. — show where it was that you saw Mr.

Turner when you came into the — the restaurant?

A. It shows the location but not the tables.

Q. The specific table that he was sitting at —

A. I mean the type of tables.

Q. Okay. Can you continue looking through

those photographs and see if the type of table that

Mr. Turner was sitting at is reflected in here?

A. I looked at these, and I haven’t — it

doesn’t appear to be that table.

Q. That table doesn’t appear to be shown —

A. No.

Q. — in the photograph?
24 So in any event, you saw Mr. Turner when you
came into Everett & Jones?

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A. Yes, sir.

Q. Was he sitting with anyone?

A. Yes.

Q. Who?

A. He as was sitting with Dorothy King and

Desley Brooks.

Q. Okay. And as you walked in the door and

looked at this table where he was sitting, was he

sitting to the left, directly in front of you or to the
right?

A. He was sitting directly in front of me.

Q. Okay. And did that mean that Ms. King was

sitting to his left or his right and Ms. Brooks was

sitting to the opposite left or right?

A. Yes.

Q. All right. Was Ms. King on Mr. Turner’s

left or his right?

A. On his left.

Q. Okay. As he was sitting down —

A. Yes.

Q. — Ms. King was sitting to his left?

A. That’s correct.

Q. And where was Ms. Brooks sitting?

A. To his right.

Q. And was there an empty chair at that table?

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A. No.

Q. So when you came in was it necessary for

someone to get another chair so you would have a place

to sit?

A. That’s correct.

Q. And who got the chair?

A. I can’t recall.

Q. All right. But someone got a chair and you

sat down?
A. That’s correct.

Q. What did you do next?

A. I said to Lynn, “I can’t believe you did

it.”

Q. Was there any other discussion between any

of you other than telling Lynn “I can’t believe that

you did it”?

A. He produced a copy of the — a folded piece

of paper and said, “Here it is.”

Q. All right. Back up — let’s back up a

little bit.
21 Were there any greetings made when you first
came in? Did anyone say, Hi, how you doing to you or

vice versa?

A. Probably something perfunctory that I don’t

really recall.

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Q. All right. And was that perfunctory

greetings was that between all of you or just between

Mr. Turner and you, Ms. King and you? Who —

A. It —

Q. — did — it was between who?

A. It was among everyone. Among everyone with

me.

Q. So Ms. Brooks said hello to you as well?

A. I imagine she did.
Q. And did you say hello to her?

A. I’m sure I did.

Q. Okay. What do you next recall about this

discussion?

A. After Lynn presented the paper to me —

Q. Yes.

A. — I look — I unfolded it. It was

unfolded in four parts, and I unfolded it and looked at

that date stamp of 4 o’clock and said “I just can’t

believe it” again.

Q. What was the next discussion that you

recall?

A. Ms. Brooks asked, “Is that that NOFA.”

Q. So after you and Mr. Turner have an exchange

during which he gives you a copy of the — showing that

the document had been filed, you tell him that “I can’t

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believe it”?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. And the next thing you recall anyone

saying after that is Ms. Brooks saying, “Is that that

NOFA”?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. Had you and Mr. Turner discussed this

document, this filing being a, quote, NOFA up to that

point at this — at the table?
A. No.

Q. You hadn’t?

A. No.

Q. Do you have any idea how Ms. Brooks would

have known that it was the NOFA that you were

discussing?

A. Perhaps they had discussed it before I got

there.

Q. What’s — what’s the next thing you recall

being said?

A. Well, both Lynn and I said, “Yes, it’s the

NOFA.”

Q. Who said anything after that? What was the

next person to say something?

A. Ms. Brooks.

Q. What did she say?

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A. “That NOFA should have never gone out. It’s

not good for black people.”

Q. Did she explain what she meant by it?

A. Not at that moment.

Q. Did you know what she meant by that comment?

A. I did not.

Q. What was the next thing said at the table?

A. I responded that — I asked her, “What are

you talking about that it’s not good for black people?”
Q. What did she say in response?

A. She said that we needed to own our own homes

and we needed to find funding to get people back into

foreclosed homes and we didn’t need these kinds of

affordable housing rental properties for our people.

Q. What was her tone of voice when she said

that?

A. I would characterize it as sarcastic.

Q. Was she yelling?

A. No.

Q. Was she name calling?

A. No.

Q. What did — what was the next thing said?

A. I said there was no conflict between renting

a place to live and owning a place and that she knew

that our project was deep in the black community and so

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there couldn’t be any issue about what served black

people’s interests, adding that I didn’t think that she

was qualified to talk what was in the interest of black

people.
5 MR. McGEE: Could you read back the last
response, please.
7 (Whereupon, the record was read.)
BY MR. McGEE:

Q. At the time you had that exchange with
Ms. Brooks were you yelling?

A. No.

Q. Were you name calling?

A. No.

Q. What was the next verbal exchange?

A. She said that she should have never let that

NOFA go out and that she was going to look into having

it withdrawn.

Q. Did she raise her voice when she said that?

A. No.

Q. Pardon me?

A. No.

Q. Did she call you out of your name when she

had that exchange?

A. No.

Q. What was the next verbal exchange?

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A. I looked at Lynn and said, “Are you

listening to this?”

Q. Did Lynn respond?

A. He smiled.

Q. He smiled?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. Do you remember him saying anything?

A. No.

Q. And when you asked Lynn if he was listening
to this, were you yelling?

A. No.

Q. And were you calling anyone out of their

name?

A. No.

Q. Okay. What was the next verbal exchange?

A. I remember Ms. Brooks saying, “As a matter

of fact on Monday I’m going to find out how to withdraw

this NOFA.”

Q. Was she yelling when she said that?

A. No.

Q. Did she call you out of your name during

that exchange?

A. No.

Q. Okay. What was the next verbal exchange?

A. I recall saying — responding, “Are you out

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of your mind?”

Q. When you said that, did you yell it?

A. I was intense. Yelling, I don’t — wouldn’t

characterize myself as yelling. I would just say that

I was pretty serious and pretty upset.

Q. But you don’t recall yelling at Ms. Brooks

at the time you said that?

A. No.

Q. And did you call her out of her name —
A. No.

Q. — when you said that?

A. Sorry.

Q. I’m sorry?

A. No, I did not.

Q. Okay. What was the next verbal exchange?

A. I turned away from Ms. Brooks because I felt

that there was nothing else to talk about and asked

Dorothy King about the book that she had contacted me

about writing about her life story.

Q. So you engaged in a discussion with Ms. King

at that point to discuss a book that Ms. King was

writing?

A. She wanted to have written for her about

her, an autobiography she wanted to have help writing.

Q. And in doing so, in turning away from

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Ms. Brooks and directing your question is Ms. King, did

you cut off the discussion, dialogue with Ms. Brooks at

that point?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. Did you have any further discussion

with Ms. Brooks?

A. No.

Q. So from the time that you turned away from

her — let me withdraw that question.
10 You had — you made a comment “Are you out
of your mind” during which you were pretty intense —

you were intense and pretty upset, at that point you

turned away from Ms. Brooks and engaged in a discussion

with Ms. King, correct?

A. That’s my recollection. Yes.

Q. Did you have any further discussion that day

with Ms. Brooks?

A. Yes.

Q. All right. What was the next dialogue

between you and Ms. Brooks after you turned away from

her at the table?

A. The next dialogue was walking down the

hallway discussing — with a heat — in a heated

discussion.

Q. A heated discussion with Ms. Brooks?

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A. That’s correct.

Q. When did the dialogue start again between

you and Ms. Brooks after you turned away from her at

the table?

A. After I returned to Everett & Jones having

left it.

Q. I’m missing a few steps. After you turned

away from Ms. Brooks and started a discussion with

Ms. King about the book she wanted assistance writing,
did you leave the restaurant?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. When does that take place?

A. Are you asking me what time?

Q. Well, how — I realize you may not have been

looking at your watch. But how much time had elapsed

from the time that you last had an exchange with

Ms. Brooks before you leave the restaurant?

A. 15 or 20 minutes.

Q. Okay. So you’re having a discussion with

Ms. King and others at the same table for 15 or 20

minutes before you leave?

A. And I’m eating.

Q. Pardon me?

A. And I’m eating.

Q. All right. But you’re not having a

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discussion with Ms. Brooks?

A. That is correct.

Q. And she’s not having a discussion with you?

A. No.

Q. Is that correct?

A. That is correct.

Q. All right. What did you have to eat?

A. Two chicken thighs and some collared greens.

Q. Did you have anything to drink?
A. I did.

Q. What did you have?

A. A shot of vodka on ice and water.

Q. What kind of vodka?

A. Grey Goose.

Q. Grey Goose water back?

A. No, over ice.

Q. Okay. So you’re involved in a dialogue with

Dorothy King for 15 or 20 minutes while you’re eating

your — eating your meal, drinking your drink before

you leave; is that correct?

A. And Lynn. In other words —

Q. But not with Dorothy — not with Desley

Brooks, correct?

A. No.

Q. I’m sorry. The way I asked the question may

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not have gotten the answer that I intended.
2 Were you having a discussion with Desley
Brooks during this same time?

A. No.

Q. All right. She’s not saying anything to

you, you’re not saying anything to her?

A. She said she intended to go on Monday and

look into withdrawing —

Q. But that —
A. — the NOFA.

Q. That was the last thing she said before you

turned to Ms. King, correct?

A. Yes, but it was repeated.

Q. Even after you turned to Ms. King?

A. I can’t recall that sequence exactly, but I

know that it was said more than once.

Q. All right. In any event, you finish your

meal?

A. Most of it.

Q. Finish your drink?

A. Most of it.

Q. And you got up and left?

A. Yeah, I paid my bill at the bar.

Q. Okay. And you went out to your car?

A. Yes, I did.

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Q. But you went back into the — to the

restaurant?

A. That’s correct.

Q. And how did you decide to go back in?

A. As I was about to get into my car Shelli

Garza, who is a — an employee of Turner Group

Construction, Lynn Turner’s company, who had been

helping us put together the binder for the NOFA and who

had made all the copies that I had waited to get
earlier, came up to the front of — to where I was

about to get into my car.

Q. And did you talk to her for a while?

A. Yes. She was there for the same purpose I

had originally gone there, which was to celebrate with

Lynn our little victory.

Q. And did you have a discussion with Shelli

before you went back inside?

A. Yes. I told her —

Q. What —

A. Yes.

Q. What — what did you talk about?

A. I told her that I was leaving because I

could not stand to sit another minute with Desley

Brooks and I wanted her to know that Desley was there,

even though I know that Lynn had sent her a text to

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forewarn her that Desley Brooks was in the — sitting

with us.

Q. And why do you say that you knew Lynn had

sent a text to warn Shelli Garza?

A. Because he did because we had previously

discussed at some point, not maybe that day, that

Ms. Garza had worked for Ms. Brooks and there had been

an acrimonious separation.

Q. And how did you know that Lynn Turner had
sent Shelli Garza a text to that effect?

A. He sent me a text telling me that while

sitting at the table.

Q. Okay. Did he send you a copy of the text

that he had sent to Shelli Garza?

A. No.

Q. He sent you a separate one?

A. Yes.

Q. And in his separate text to you did he say,

I sent Shelli a text to warn her that Desley is here?

A. I don’t think he was that explicit. He

said, I let Shelli know who was here, words to that

effect.

Q. Okay. In any event, did you talk with

Ms. Garza about your reluctance to go back inside?

A. No. I talked to her about leaving.

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Q. Okay. And what did she say in response?

A. She said, Why don’t you just come back in

and you and Lynn and I will sit together and have a

drink together.

Q. And did you do so?

A. Yes. I went back in.

Q. And when you went back in were Lynn Turner,

Dorothy King and Desley Brooks still sitting at the

same place?
A. No.

Q. And what was different when you went back

in?

A. When Ms. Garza and I entered the rest —

entered that same bar area, Ms. Brooks was sitting at

that same table alone.

Q. And did you and Shelli Garza find a seat?

A. No, we walked toward the back.

Q. Okay. You didn’t go back to the same table

where Desley Brooks was sitting by herself, right?

A. No.

Q. Okay. You walked towards the back. And can

you see on any of the photographs anything that shows

the path that you and Shelli Garza took to walk towards

the back?

A. I can.

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Q. Yeah. Which — which photograph are you

referring to?

A. Number 6, A-6.

Q. Okay A-6 is the one that shows the walkway

with the Budweiser sign above it?

A. Yes, it shows it. Yes.

Q. That’s the one — that’s the photograph that

you’re referring to?

A. Yes.
Q. This shows the path that you walked. Does

it show any of the tables at which anyone in your group

was sitting?

13
MR. BONNER: Go ahead.
14
THE WITNESS: As I indicated, the tables are
different, one. And, two, this was — the door would

have been at our back, so I didn’t mean that we were

walking down that pathway. I meant we were walking

from the door to that pathway.

BY MR. McGEE:

Q. And that pathway would be the hallway that

has the word “Budweiser” above the door?

A. No.

Q. You were —

A. We were walking toward that pathway.

Q. In that — in that direction?

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A. In that direction, yes, sir.

Q. Okay. And did you have any discussion —

did you — in that pathway that you — that you

traversed, did you walk past the table where Desley

Brooks was sitting?

A. Yes.

Q. Did you have any discussion with Shelli

Garza as you passed that table?

A. I did.
Q. Do you remember what you said walking past

it?

A. I very well remember that I said, “I’m glad

Dorothy has opened up the back because we won’t have to

put up with any of this bullshit.”

Q. What did you mean by that comment?

A. I meant that Shelli and I, and myself in

particular, would no longer have to be at a table where

Desley Brooks was sitting making all of these

threatening comments about our project.

Q. Okay. And did you make that comment

specifically to be heard only by Shelli Garza?

A. No.

Q. Did you make that comment — did you utter

those words in such a manner that they could be heard

by Desley Brooks?

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A. Yes.

Q. Did you make those comments in a manner that

they were intended to be overheard by Desley Brooks?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. Why?

A. Because I was very angry and I wanted her to

know that I felt that what she was saying was just that

worthless and enraging, but I did not want to engage

her in any conversation about it anymore.
Q. What happens after that, after you walk past

her and say, I’m glad that Dorothy opened up the back

so we don’t have to put up with any more bullshit from

Desley?

14
MR. BONNER: No, that misstates —
15
THE WITNESS: Yeah, it —
16
MR. BONNER: It misstates the testimony. I
know you didn’t intend to in trying to paraphrase it.
18 MR. McGEE: You’re right, so let me rephrase
it.
20 MR. BONNER: Yes.
BY MR. McGEE:

Q. Was the, quote, unquote, bullshit that you

were referring to the dialogue that you had engaged in

with Desley Brooks?

A. Yes.

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Q. And when you said you didn’t — wouldn’t

have to put up with any more bullshit, you were

referring to any more dialogue from Desley Brooks,

correct?

A. That is correct.

Q. All right. So what happens next after that?

A. Ms. Brooks got out of the — it was a high

chair. She got down from the chair and said, “The only

bullshit in here is you.”
Q. Did you respond?

A. Yes.

Q. What was your response?

A. I just said something to the effect of,

Please, you need to stop, words to this effect and

kept — kept it moving.

Q. Going back to the comment that you say

Desley Brooks made that, quote, The only bullshit in

here is you, close quote, was she yelling at you?

A. She was not speaking softly. I wouldn’t

call it — I mean, yelling is, you know — I don’t know

how to characterize yelling.

Q. Did she raise the volume of her voice over

what volume it had been when you’d had the earlier

discussions with her that day?

A. I’m sure.

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Q. When you made — when you responded, quote,

Please, you need to stop, were you yelling?

A. At about the same level.

Q. The same level as her voice had been when

she said, “The only bullshit in here is you”?

A. I would say so, yes.

Q. All right. What — who says what after

that?

A. We’re walking down the hall. She’s right on
my heels, and I said, you know, For all the things that

you’ve done, for you to say anything about the black

community, you are an INS prosecutor, you have

supported a police state in Oakland and on the down-low

you’re supporting the transport of coal through West

Oakland, you have nothing to say to me about black

people or anything else.
17 MR. McGEE: Would you read back the last
response, please.
19 (Whereupon, the record was read.)
BY MR. McGEE:

Q. During this discussion walking down the

hall, did you raise your voice?

A. I would say I wasn’t speaking in a whisper.

I was speaking over my shoulder to her because she was

right behind me.

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Q. Did you call Ms. Brooks out of her name

during the time you were walking down the hall?

A. I didn’t curse — say — call her a curse

word, if that’s what you’re saying.

Q. Did you call her a bitch —

A. Oh —

Q. — while walking down the hall?

A. — no. I’m sorry. No. Excuse me.

Q. Did you at any time on October 30th, 2015
call Ms. Brooks a boot-licking, black ass, prosecuting

bitch?

A. No.

Q. Have you read the statements of the

individuals who were interviewed by the Oakland Police

Department because they were witnesses to this

incident?

A. I’ve read — I’ve read the summaries and

I’ve seen the videos.

Q. Did you see in the videos — or I should say

did you hear in the videos the statement of any of the

witnesses who recalled you calling Ms. Brooks, quote, a

boot-licking, black ass, prosecuting bitch?

A. I think there was a transcription that

Ms. Garza said that, but I don’t recall seeing that on

the video in those exact words.

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Q. So you do recall seeing a transcript of

Ms. Garza’s statement in which she said that she heard

you call Ms. Brooks a boot-licking, black ass,

prosecuting bitch?

A. It was not a transcript. It was a summary.

Q. Okay. And you saw that in the summary?

A. Yes, sir.

Q. Did you see in the summary of Ms. Garza’s

statement where she said that you made that statement
calling Ms. Brooks a boot-licking, black ass,

prosecuting bitch more than once?

A. No, I didn’t see that.

Q. Did you ever call her that?

A. No, I did not.

Q. Okay. What else — you — you said that

you’re walking down the hall, you do tell Ms. Brooks

that you understand she was an INS prosecutor?

A. Yes.

Q. And you said something to the effect of on

the down-low you’ve learned that she supports coal in

West Oakland or something to that effect?

A. I didn’t say that I learned it on the

down-low.

Q. Well, how did you — how did you learn that?

A. I — I watched her behavior in the City

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Council meetings during the coal transport. I watched

her hostility toward the people who were against the

transport of the coal and her support of people some of

whom were from her district who were supporting the

transport of coal, and other people in the community of

people who were opposing the transport of coal have —

they have stated that she was supporting Phil Tagami’s

effort to transport coal through West Oakland and other

places.
Q. This dialogue that you had with Ms. Brooks

where you told her that you are aware that she was an

INS prosecutor, was that while the two of — that’s

while you’re walking towards the back area, correct?

A. That is correct.

Q. All right. Can you tell me what the order

of procession is going to the back, by that I mean were

you following Dorothy King to the back?

A. I was right behind or — Dorothy was just

ahead of me because she was — yes.

Q. And so immediately behind Dorothy King is

you?

A. Not immediately but —

Q. Well —

A. — within a distance.

Q. The next person in line, if you will, after

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you — after Dorothy King was you?

A. This is correct.

Q. And the next person after you was Desley

Brooks, correct?

A. That’s correct.

Q. And in the rear of this procession is Shelli

Garza, right?

A. I have no idea where Shelli Garza was.

Q. Okay. But do you know that Desley Brooks is
behind you?

A. That’s correct.

Q. And as you were walking down the hall did

you have your back to Desley — Desley Brooks?

A. Yes.

Q. At the time that you made the comment to her

about having heard she was an INS prosecutor, are you

still walking with your back to Desley Brooks?

A. Yes.

Q. At any point did you turn and face Desley

Brooks?

A. Yes.

Q. When — how does that come about?

A. When we reached the opening to the next room

where I was intending to see Lynn where he usually sat

with his family and friends, we both stopped. Dorothy

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stopped to tell us that she was upset with both of us

because we were disturbing her customers, and so

everybody just stopped at that entrance to the main —

next room.

Q. Do you know why Dorothy said that you were

disturbing her customers?

A. Yes.

Q. Why?

A. Because she felt that we were yelling and
she didn’t — this is how she put it, and that her

customers were getting upset.

Q. Were — was anybody in your procession

yelling?

A. Not in my opinion because the place was

noisy anyway, and I don’t think it was yelling. I just

think she didn’t want to see this kind of argument in

her club.

Q. Did Dorothy King tell you that you were

yelling?

A. No. She didn’t say, You’re — you’re

yelling, Elaine. She said, “Stop it.”

Q. And what did you understand her to mean by

that?

A. Stop all this bickering and arguing.

Q. Okay. Now, looking again at the photograph

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that’s shown in Exhibit A-6, is the entrance to the

back room shown on that photo?

A. Yes.

Q. It’s the — it’s the darkened area that is

at the end of the hallway that has the doorway with the

name “Budweiser” over it, correct?

A. That’s correct.

Q. All right. So was it in front of that door

at the end of the hallway that you turned around?
A. No, once we got into the room.

Q. Once you got into the room at the very back?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. Was there further dialogue between

you and Desley Brooks at that time?

A. Yes.

Q. What was the further dialogue?

A. She said to me, You’re all talk. I’m sick

of your bullshit, you’re only — all you are is talk,

you’re not going to do nothing, and plus you’re old. I

haven’t moved on you or touched you because you’re old.

Bam, she hits me in the chest.
22 MR. McGEE: Would you read that back,
please.
24 (Whereupon, the record was read.)
BY MR. McGEE:

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Q. Now, at the time this happened, the time you

have this discussion leading up to her hitting you in

the chest, you’re facing her, correct?

A. We’re facing each other.

Q. Facing each other. She was walking behind

you when you had your back turned to her but —

A. That is correct.

Q. But when you get to the entrance to or right

inside the room in back you turn to face her?
A. She and I turned to face each other.

Dorothy was screaming at us, and it was a moment where

Dorothy was trying to put a halt to everything now that

we had a space in which to sort of stop walking down

this narrow corridor.

Q. All right. I’m only focusing now on which

way you and Ms. Brooks were facing. When you were

walking down the hall you have your back to Ms. Brooks,

correct?

A. She’s walking behind me. That’s correct.

Q. You’re facing the open door and she is as

well, correct?

A. That’s correct.

Q. When you get through the door you turn and

face Ms. Brooks, correct?

A. No. I just stopped at the other — in the

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open part.

Q. Did you ever face her?

A. Yes, because she came around and faced me.

She came from behind me and —

Q. So —

A. — and stepped into that same space and

faced me.

Q. And what happens after she faces you, she

walks around you and faces you?
A. Yeah.
11 MR. BONNER: You mean what happened other
than what she just testified happened?
13 MR. McGEE: Yes.
BY MR. McGEE:

Q. What next — as you walked into the room in

the back, Ms. Brooks walks around you and faces you?

A. And puts her purse on the floor.

Q. What hand was her purse in?

A. I don’t know. Could have been her left hand

because she had — I think they had Dorothy’s glass of

wine in her right hand because she doesn’t drink and

Dorothy always drinks a glass of red wine.

Q. So Ms. Brooks may have been carrying Dorothy

King’s glass of wine —

A. Yes.

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Q. — in one hand and she had her purse in the

other?

A. That’s my general — that’s my recollection,

yes.

Q. And whatever hand she was carrying the purse

in she sets the purse down?

A. On the floor.

Q. On the floor. And is — what happens next?

Is that when she hits you in the chest?
A. No. Then she says all the things that I

just recounted and then she hits me in the chest.

Q. All right. And what does she hit you with?

A. Her fist.

Q. With the same fist that she had — was

carrying her purse in?

A. No. Her purse was in her hand. It wasn’t

necessarily in her fist. She put the glass of wine —

there was a table right there and I remember that.

Q. So which hand was the glass of wine in?

A. I’m not sure, sir. It could have been right

hand with the wine and left hand had the purse, but

both things were put down.

Q. All right. But you don’t remember what hand

she had which in?

A. No.

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Q. So she puts the glass of wine down and the

purse?

A. Yes. She puts her purse on the floor, the

wine on the table.

Q. And then she hits you where?

A. In the chest.

Q. Where in the chest? Can you demonstrate on

yourself where she hit you?

A. Right here (indicating).
Q. Okay. With both hands? One hand? How —

A. Both hands.

Q. With both hands. Were fists balled up?

A. Yes.

Q. So she punches you in the chest?

A. She pummels me, punches me, strikes me.

Q. Well —

A. However you want to characterize it, I’m

giving you the gesture that I remember.

Q. Okay. I really don’t want to characterize

it at all. I really want your recollection of what

happened.
22 MR. BONNER: Why don’t you demonstrate it
for him.

BY MR. McGEE:

Q. Please.

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A. On whom, you?
2 MR. BONNER: No, just to the jury what she
did to you.
4 THE WITNESS: (Witness indicating.)
BY MR. McGEE:

Q. And when she extended her arms like you just

showed, she hit you in the chest?

A. Yes. Well, she moved toward me to do that

because we weren’t eye to eye or nose to nose at the
moment.

Q. And —

A. So she stepped forward, had to step forward.

I was against something and I didn’t have anywhere to

go, and she punches me in the chest.

Q. All right. Did she hit you more than once?

A. No.

Q. Okay. So she hit you and what happens?

A. I was knocked over some chairs and table or

something, chairs and table.

Q. All right. And where were those chairs and

tables?

A. They were right along that entrance way,

apparently on the inside of the big room.

Q. So as you walked inside — and by big room

you mean the one in the back?

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A. The middle room. There are actually two

rooms behind the main restaurant.

Q. So the — past this doorway that’s shown on

Exhibit A-6 —

A. Uh-huh.

Q. — there’s a door in the back?

A. Yes.

Q. This is the entrance to the middle room?

A. A very big cavernous room, yes.
Q. All right. And the chairs that you

described were on the inside of this room that’s —

that you’re looking at going through this door?

A. Yes.

Q. And they’re on the wall or —

A. I can’t tell you because I didn’t see them

in the first place.

Q. Okay. And what happens after that?

A. I’m entangled in these chairs. I hit my

head very hard. I could not get out of those —

whatever I was entangled in, I could not get out of it.

And eventually is my recollection — I don’t know if I

blanked out for a minute or what, but I was down there

and I just remember seeing her hovering over me and —

and looking like she was ready for a fight for the next

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always thought it was Maurice but Lynn said he helped

to pull me up too, but two people helped me up as far

as I know.

4
MR. BONNER: Should we —
5
MR. McGEE: I apologize. We’ve been going
for —

7
MR. BONNER: For an hour and a half. Yeah.
8
MR. McGEE: — little over an hour.
9
MR. BONNER: Okay. Let’s take a break.
10
THE VIDEOGRAPHER: This concludes video
number two of the deposition of Elaine Brown. Going

off the record. The time on the monitor is 3:03 p.m.

13
(Whereupon, a break was taken.)
14
THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Here begins video number
three of the deposition of Elaine Brown. Coming back

on the record. The time on the monitor is 3:14.

Please begin.
18 MR. McGEE: Would you read back the last
question and response, please.
20 (Whereupon, the record was read.)
BY MR. McGEE:

Q. Who were the two people that helped you up?

A. As I said, Lynn Turner and Maurice

Stevenson.

Q. Did Desley Brooks help you up?

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A. No.

Q. You’re sure of that?

A. Absolutely.

Q. Okay. You said that — you testified that

you saw her hovering over you. What did you mean by

that?

A. She was standing there looking down at me

and people were gathering near her and she was looking

like, Get up, let’s fight. That was my impression.
Q. When you saw her hovering over you, did she

have her fist balled up?

A. I — I don’t — no, I think she — she was

just — she was — yes, she was standing there.

Q. Did you see her standing over you with her

arms extended to help you up?

A. Oh, absolutely not.

Q. All right. What happens next?

A. I asked — I — when I get up, I asked

Dorothy to call the police.

Q. Did she?

A. Not to my knowledge.

Q. And you said that because you didn’t —

A. The police didn’t show up.

Q. You didn’t see the police show up. Okay.

What did you do next after you were helped up?

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A. I asked about someone to call the police and

at this point the security guard came over and told me

I had to leave.

Q. The security guard came over and did what?

A. And — and sort of stood in front of me

because people were holding Desley back — Ms. Brooks,

excuse me, and he came and said, It’s time for you to

leave.

Q. Time for you to leave —
A. Yes.

Q. — referring to Elaine Brown?

A. Directly. Very directly.

Q. Okay. You said you saw someone holding

Ms. Brooks back?

A. I saw several people around her.

Q. Who?

A. I have no idea.

Q. Why do you say they were holding her back?

A. That was my impression.

Q. All right. Did you see them physically

holding her?

A. They were blocking her from getting near me.

Q. You saw Dorothy Brooks — Desley Brooks

being blocked from you, but the security guard came to

you and said that you had to leave, correct?

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A. Yes.

Q. And what did you do at that point?

A. I was very upset. I said, “You’re asking me

to leave?” I asked about the police, and then I gave

up.
6 MR. BONNER: So the question was what did
you do is what he’s asking.
8 THE WITNESS: I left.
BY MR. McGEE:
Q. Did you go directly to your car at that

point?

A. I went — yes, I went back toward my car.

Yes.

Q. Okay. Anyone go with you?

A. Yes.

Q. Who?

A. Maurice and I believe Shelli — and Shelli

Garza.

Q. And once you got to your car, what did you

do?

A. I stood and talked to Maurice and Shelli.

Q. What did you talk about?

A. I was upset. They were trying to comfort

me, Maurice was, and I didn’t feel that I was — I was

really afraid and angry and hurt and a bunch of stuff,

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and so I was out there talking to them about my

feelings and they were trying to be comforting.

Q. Did you do anything other than talk to

Shelli and Maurice once you got to your car?

A. Yes.

Q. What else did you do?

A. I looked for a pipe that had been given to

me by Dwayne Wiggins.

Q. Where did you look for the pipe that had
been given to you by Dwayne Wiggins?

A. In my trunk.

Q. Who’s Dwayne Wiggins?

A. He’s a well-known local, rather well-known

musician. Used to be a leader of a group called Tony!

Toni! Tone!

Q. Do you know why he gave you that pipe?

A. Yes.

Q. Why?

A. He said, Here, you need something to take

care of yourself. We were somewhere in West Oakland,

and he said, you know, this is something to defend

yourself with.

Q. When did Dwayne Wiggins give you the pipe to

defend yourself with?

A. Six months before that.

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Q. Do you remember the — what the

circumstances were leading to Dwayne Wiggins giving you

the pipe to defend yourself with?

A. Yes.

Q. What?

A. We were — he has people that take care of

his musical discs, CDs on, Wood Street in West Oakland

and we were there. Dwayne is a member of my advisory

board for Oakland and The World Enterprises, and we
were there and we were talking. And he said, You’re —

you shouldn’t be rolling around here so much by

yourself. And so he had this pipe that was there that

this woman had made apparently. It was just a — that

kind of conversation. There was no specific issue that

led up to his handing me that. And I took it.

Q. Okay. And you — when you took it — took

the pipe from Dwayne Wiggins, you put it in your trunk?

A. Well, I had another car at the time, so I

put it somewhere but I probably put it in the trunk,

yes.

Q. So you said that once you left the inside of

Everett & Jones with Mo and Shelli you went out to your

car and one of the things you did was look for the

pipe?

25
MR. BONNER: No, that — that misstates the

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testimony. Your summary — I think her testimony is

very clear what it is. If you want it read back, we

can have it read back. Your summary is not an accurate

description of her testimony.

BY MR. McGEE:

Q. What was your purpose in looking for the

pipe?

A. I was afraid.

Q. You were afraid of what?
A. Afraid of Ms. Brooks coming outside.

Q. Did she follow you outside from where you

were in the back room of Everett & Jones?

A. No.

Q. And did you tell either Shelli or Mo that

you were going back inside with this pipe?

A. No.

Q. Did you put the pipe down?

A. No. I held it.

Q. Did one of them tell you to put the pipe

back in your trunk and leave it there?

A. Both of them told me.

Q. What did you do then?

A. I got in my car and left.

Q. And did you at some point report this

incident to the Oakland Police Department?

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A. Yes.

Q. When?

A. Couple of weeks later.

Q. And why did you wait two weeks to report it?

A. I didn’t know how I wanted to resolve this.

This was a well-known person here in Oakland, meaning

Ms. Brooks. I have certain notoriety here, or fame,

whatever you want to call it. I didn’t think it would

be good. I was thinking that if she would have
apologized, we might have talked about it. She has my

cell number. So I was debating what I should do, if

anything, until I started having more and more pain in

my shoulder, and I was getting more and more frustrated

and depressed over the — the news reports and the

gossip that was in the street, and I felt that I had a

right to do something. I attempted to file a civil

claim with the City, with your office, and I was told I

could not file that claim until I had filed a police

report. And that is the reason and the only reason I

went and filed a police report.

Q. You said that Desley Brooks had your cell

number?

A. Yes.

Q. How did she get it?

A. Presumably I gave it to her.

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Q. When did you give it to her?

A. I have no idea.

Q. Do you know why you gave it to her?

A. No, I really don’t. It could have been

during the time I mentioned about Alice Spearman, who

died, who was our mutual friend. It could have been

during that period.

Q. Now, after this incident at Everett & Jones

on October 30th, 2015, did you seek medical treatment?
A. Yes.

Q. When did you first seek medical treatment?

A. The next day, October 31.

Q. Where?

A. At Kaiser Oakland.

Q. And what were your physical complaints at

that time?

A. My head had a big bump on it about the size

of a boiled egg and it was hurting, and I had bruises.

My shoulders were hurting, both of them, especially my

right shoulder. I had a bruise on my legs and my back

hurt. I was just generally miserable. And so people

said to me, my friends said, You need to go and get it

checked out.
24 MR. McGEE: I’m going to ask the court
reporter to mark as a group exhibit the copies of the

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photographs that you provided which are — this is

going to be group Exhibit B, dash, A through F.
3 (Whereupon, Defendant’s Exhibit B was marked
for identification.)

BY MR. McGEE:

Q. And I’m going to ask you if you would,

Ms. Brown, to take a look at that group exhibit and

point out if it’s in there any photographs of the

injury that you sustained to your head as a result of
this incident?

A. No, it’s not in there.

Q. You didn’t take a picture?

A. I couldn’t take a picture of the back of my

head, plus my hair was there.

Q. Okay. Did you ask anyone if they would take

a picture of the bruise that you had on the back of

your head?

A. No.
19 MR. McGEE: Okay. Would you mark this next
in order marked for identification C.

21
MR. BONNER: Thank you.
22
MR. McGEE: This is Exhibit C.
23
(Whereupon, Defendant’s Exhibit C was marked
for identification.)

BY MR. McGEE:

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Q. Ms. Brooks, you’ve been — I’m sorry.
2 Ms. Brown, you’ve been handed a document
that’s been marked Exhibit C. It’s entitled “Claim

Against City of Oakland,” and I’d ask that you take a

look at it and confirm that the statements at the very

back were signed by you?

A. Yes.

Q. And is this — first directing your

attention to the first page. Does your signature
appear on this page?

A. Yes.

Q. And is all the information on the form

itself in your handwriting?

A. Yes.

Q. And is it all true?

A. Yes.

Q. The third page of this exhibit is something

called a “Citizen’s Crime Report.” And did you

complete this form on or about November 16, 2015?

A. Yes. Yes.

Q. Is the information on this page in your

handwriting?

A. Yes.

Q. And is it all true?

A. Well, a little bit of the left is missing,

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but I’m assuming it’s true. It’s what I wrote.

Q. This appears to be — that part of it that

you can read appears to be something you wrote,

correct?

A. Absolutely.

Q. And would you turn to the last page, and

I’ve got the same questions. Did you sign this — this

page on or about November 16th, 2015?

A. Yes.
Q. Is it all in your handwriting?

A. Yes.

Q. Is it all true?

A. Yes.

14
MR. McGEE: Okay. Next in order.
15
(Whereupon, Defendant’s Exhibit D was marked
for identification.)
17 THE WITNESS: Do these go back to her? He’s
just showing them to me?
19 MR. BONNER: He’s going to ask you
questions. She gets to keep them.

21
THE WITNESS: I got it.
22
MR. BONNER: They get attached to the depo.
23
THE WITNESS: Okay. Thank you.
BY MR. McGEE:

Q. Ms. Brown, you’ve been handed a document

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entitled “Complaint for Damages.” It’s been marked as

Exhibit D to the deposition.
3 Have you seen this document before?
A. Yes.

Q. Do you remember when it was that you first

reviewed it?

A. I think right after it was filed. I don’t

know when that was. Months ago.

Q. Pardon me?
A. I’m sorry. I believe after it was filed

months ago.

Q. Okay. At the time you reviewed it did you

notice anything in it that was inconsistent with your

recollection of the events?

A. No.

Q. Let me direct your attention to paragraph 26

on page six of the complaint. And I’d ask that you —

A. Excuse me.

Q. — read that paragraph to yourself and let

me know when you have, please.

A. Oh, I’m sorry. I’m looking at line 26.

Q. No, page —

A. No, I got it.

Q. Page six, paragraph 26.

A. Paragraph 26, not line. I’m sorry. Excuse

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me.
2 MR. BONNER: You can let him know when you
finish reading it.
4 THE WITNESS: Oh, okay. I finished reading
it. I’m sorry.

BY MR. McGEE:

Q. Ms. Brown, reading this paragraph do you

agree with the statement where it says that Defendant

Brooks, in a hostile, confrontational manner, demanded
from you, Say it again, say it again, close quote?

A. Yes.

Q. What was she referring to when she said “Say

it again, say it again”?

A. Say — passing her by talking about

bullshit.

Q. And what do you mean — or strike that.
17 Do you agree that the manner in which
Ms. Brooks made that — that statement was hostile and

confrontational?

A. No doubt about it.

Q. In what way was it hostile and

confrontational?

A. It had a street tone to it, what we would

call a street tone. And I can only say this is how one

interprets things, and that’s how I interpreted it.

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Q. I’d like to direct your attention to

paragraph number 29 and would you read — just read the

first sentence of that paragraph and let me know when

you have.

A. I have.

Q. Was Ms. Brooks yelling at you during any of

your discussions at Everett & Jones?

A. This is one of those where it’s, again,

yelling. Yes, if someone is being confrontational, it
doesn’t mean they’re necessarily yelling at the top of

their lungs. So we would have to talk about what does

yelling mean. But, yes, she yelled from my

perspective.

Q. Would you read to yourself paragraph number

27 and let me know when you have.

A. I’ve read it.

Q. And is that paragraph accurate?

A. Well, it’s accurate to the degree that it

says I turned and she had moved around so I could face

her, but it doesn’t indicate that she had moved into

that other position.

Q. So let me read the sentence that you’re

referring to where it says, quote, Apprehensive about

the escalation, Ms. Brown turned to face her at the

entrance to the second bar area, period, close quote.

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Is that sentence accurate?
2 MR. BONNER: It’s asked and answered. She
just explained it.

BY MR. McGEE:

Q. Let me ask this specific question. Does

that sentence refresh your recollection that at the

entrance to the second bar area you turned to face

Desley Brooks?
9 MR. BONNER: I’m going to object. There’s
no foundation that she lacked any recollection. She

told you exactly what she recalled.

BY MR. McGEE:

Q. You can answer the question.

14
MR. BONNER: You can answer.
15
THE WITNESS: As I say, the — the missing
piece is simply that by this time she was inside the

same doorway that I was on the other — we were both on

the other side of that doorway by then. In other

words — and I want to be very clear because I

understand that — that you’re — it’s not clear what

I’m saying. She was no longer walking behind me. She

had turned and was now — Dorothy was here to my left

and Desley — Ms. Brooks had turned and was facing and

I turned to face her.

BY MR. McGEE:

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Q. So did you — when you contacted the doctors

at Kaiser did they — did you tell them what parts of

your body were bothering you?

A. Yes.

Q. What did you tell them?

A. What I recall is I told them that my head

hurt, my shoulders, my thighs, my buttocks, my back. I

was in general body pain.

Q. Did they examine you?
A. Yes.

Q. And what parts of your body did they

examine?

A. They looked at my head especially. I don’t

recall. They took an X-ray of my chest area, I

believe, or back. But the medical records will reflect

what they did. I can’t recall everything. I was

pretty emotionally distraught, so I can’t recall every

single thing that happened at that moment, but I can

assure you that they did some tests or some examination

because the focus was on my head. At the time everyone

thought that I might have had a concussion.

Q. And let me assure you, Ms. Brown, I only am

asking about your recollection of what they examined,

what you talked about.

A. Okay.

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Q. If you don’t recall, that’s — that’s fine.
2 Did they examine your shoulders?
A. I think they looked at the bruises, as I

recall.

Q. Did you have a bruise on your shoulder?

A. Yes.

Q. Which one?

A. I had a bruise on both shoulders, as I

recall.
Q. And is it your recollection that you injured

both of your shoulders on October 30th, 2015?

A. My recollection is that I was — I fell and

I hit a lot of places on my body. So I wouldn’t say I

injured this or that. I say I — I was — I fell and I

hit almost every single place on my body.

Q. Did you hit both of your shoulders?

A. I’m pretty sure I did.

Q. Okay. Did you — and what treatment, if

any, did the doctors at Kaiser prescribe for you?

A. At that first ER encounter they gave me some

pain medication, some — a sling to wear my arm — my

arm in — put my arm in and didn’t seem to do much else

that I can recall.

Q. Did they tell you why they were giving you

the sling?

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A. Keep pressure off my arm.

Q. Off of your arm?

A. Yeah.

Q. Or off of your shoulders?

A. Well, I’m not a doctor, so in my mind it was

something to hold up my arm.

Q. What — what was hurting at that time, the

time they gave you the sling?

A. As I’ve said, just about everything on my
body.

Q. Were your shoulders, both of them, bothering

you?

A. I don’t know that they were bothering me in

the manner in which you’re trying to elicit from me. I

was in pain. I couldn’t really describe all of that

pain.

Q. What I’m trying to find is when they gave

you a sling were they giving you a sling because of

your complaint of pain in one shoulder or the other or

both of them?

A. They were giving me a sling because of my

complaint of pain.

Q. Your complaint of pain where?

A. In my shoulder.

Q. Which one?

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A. Probably the right shoulder.

Q. You’re not — you don’t recall whether it

was the right or the left?

A. Not at that moment, I do not.

Q. What did you do next in terms of medical

treatment?

A. I think it was only a couple of days later

that I went back to the ER because I was having more

pain in my shoulder now.
Q. Still in the right shoulder?

A. Now very focused in the right shoulder.

Q. Okay. And when is this that you start

focusing or your — you’ve identified clearly that it’s

your right shoulder that’s bothering you?

A. Several days later.

Q. Several days from what?

A. After the 31st of October when I went to the

ER the first time.

Q. All right. And what happens then? What do

the doctors tell you then?

A. I think they gave me some more pain

medication and said I should see an orthopedist.

Q. An orthopedist at Kaiser?

A. Yes.

Q. And did you in fact see an orthopedist at

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Kaiser?

A. I did.

Q. Who?

A. Dr. Gon, G-o-n.

Q. And what did Dr. Gon do regarding your

condition?

A. He had a doctor who was an intern that was

with him give me a cortizone shot in my shoulder, my

right shoulder.
Q. Can you identify where it was in your right

shoulder that you got this cortizone shot?

A. Yes.

Q. Can you point it out?

A. At the top of my shoulder right about here

(indicating).

Q. And it was right at the point that you just

indicated that you actually received the injection?

A. I believe so.

Q. Okay. And did that help?

A. It only made matters worse.

Q. In — in what way?

A. I was still in pain.

Q. What — what further treatment did or

diagnosis did the doctors do at that point?

A. Well, I went back to Dr. Gon and said the

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cortizone shot is not helping, and he gave me a second

cortizone shot but he gave it himself because he

thought perhaps the young intern had put it in the

wrong space.

Q. And was the shot that Dr. Gon gave you in

the same location that you just identified?

A. No, somewhere in that area.

Q. Can you —

A. In other words, you’d have to look at the

record to see whether it was in the two inches from the

whatever. I — in other words, they were in a matter

of inches of each other —

Q. It was generally in the same location?

A. — at the top of the shoulder. Yes.

Q. Okay. And you said this was a couple days

after the first one?

A. Maybe not a couple of days, but not — I

called him a couple of days later. It could have been

a week after.

Q. And did the second injection help?

A. No.

Q. Okay. What happens after that?

A. He ordered an MRI.

Q. Okay. And do you remember when that was

that he ordered the MRI? Was it sometime around

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December of 2015?

A. Could have been December or January.

Q. All right. And did you undergo the MRI?

A. Not the first one.

Q. Why?

A. I became very claustrophobic in the MRI

machine, and I asked to — I asked them to stop.

Q. Where was it that you were undergoing — or

went to undergo the MRI?
A. In Kaiser Oakland.

Q. Okay. On Broadway, Broadway and —

A. Yes.

Q. — 40th or so?

A. Yes. There’s two there, but I can’t

remember.

Q. So you didn’t undergo it the first time

because you were claustrophobic. Did you ultimately

undergo the MRI?

A. Yes.

Q. And do you remember when that was?

A. Maybe two weeks later. I don’t know.

Q. And were you advised what the results of the

MRI showed?

A. Yes.

Q. What?

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A. That I had a torn rotator cuff and that the

tendon was severed in that shoulder.

Q. Had you prior to October 30th, 2015

experienced any pain in your right shoulder?

A. No.

Q. And what, if anything, did the Kaiser

doctors prescribe for you after you received the

results of the MRI?

A. That the best treatment for me at this point
was surgery.

Q. Did they tell you why you needed surgery?

A. Yes, to prepare the tendon that was sev —

severed and in that the only way that I would have any

— if I allowed it to continue that I might not ever be

able to use the arm again.

Q. Did any doctor tell you how it was that you

sustained this injury to your right shoulder?

A. Tell me?

Q. Yes.

A. No.

Q. Did any — did any doctor ever tell you that

you likely incurred this injury as a result of

something that had happened on October 30th?

A. Did they tell me that?

Q. Yes.

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A. No, that — not that I know of. I’m

confused by the question quite frankly.

Q. Well, let me ask it in a fashion that may

clear up the confusion.
5 Did you tell any doctor that you injured
your shoulder in October of 2015?

A. Yes.

Q. As a result of the incident that took place

at the Everett & Jones on October 30th, 2015?
A. I did.

Q. All right. My question is whether any

doctor told you that he or she agreed with your

assessment that you sustained this injury on that date?

A. Oh, yes.

Q. Which doctors told you that?

A. Probably Dr. Hatch, the surgeon. There was

another doctor who attempted to say that you couldn’t

say what it was, but he — this is before the MRI, and

so he didn’t think there was a rotator cuff tear at

all. And it wasn’t until the MRI was — the results

were made known that his diagnosis or his thought or

his theory was dismissed because he didn’t think I had

a rotator cuff tear or anything else.

Q. Which doctor was that?

A. I can’t remember his name. It was someone

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in between Gon and Hatch. Oh, wait a minute if you —

well, if you were to tell me I would remember. I would

agree if I — if you repeated his name.

Q. Was that Dr. Aptaker?

A. Yes.

Q. A-p-t-a-k-e-r?

A. Yes.

Q. That’s who told you that?

A. But he ultimately ordered the MRI.
Q. Okay. So you underwent surgery to repair

your shoulder when?

A. Oh, did you ask me when?

Q. Yes.

A. I’m sorry. March 30, 2016.

Q. And did that resolve the problems of the

pain, first of all, that you were experiencing?

A. We can say that I have some use of my arm,

but I am always having some pain from that shoulder.

Q. In addition to the work that you do for your

own organization, have you been employed by anyone else

in the last five years?

A. Yes.

Q. Who else have you been employed by?

A. In the last five years?

Q. Yes.

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A. I — let me see, what is this, 2017? So up

until 2013, that gives us one year, I was employed by

the labor union SEIU United Healthcare Workers as a

union rep — representative.

Q. I’m sorry. What was your position at SEIU?

A. I was union — I represented the union

members at Kaiser facilities.

Q. And when did you stop working for SEIU?

A. In May of 2013.
Q. And have you worked since then for anyone

else?

A. Yes.

Q. Who did you go to work for after the SEIU?

A. I’m employed — I went to — I took up

employment with Alameda County Supervisor, Keith

Carson.

Q. When did you begin working for Keith Carson?

A. Around September of 2013.

Q. What do you do for him?

A. I’m a member of his staff, and my main focus

is the project that I started talking to him about in

the first place, which is why he asked me to join his

staff, which is dealing with reentry of formerly-

incarcerated people.

Q. Do you still work for Supervisor Carson?

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A. Yes.

Q. Do you do anything other than work related

to the reentry of incarcerated individuals for

Supervisor Carson?

A. Yes.

Q. What else do you do?

A. Well, I’ve been asked to — and I have put

up certain forums, youth forums, regarding questions of

self-determination in West Oakland. I have
participated — I write — he’s asked me now to

overlook the agenda of the Black Elected Officials

Organization that he oversees at this time, and so

basically I’m sort of a community person in the office.

Q. Okay. Have you spoken to Supervisor Carson

about the incident that took place on October 30th,

2015?

A. Yes.

Q. What have the two of you discussed in that

regard?

A. Not very much because he’s not very happy

about publicity of any kind, and so he just said, you

know, he’s sorry to hear what happened. And that’s

about his opinion about it, but we have — we don’t

talk about it.

25
MR. McGEE: Let’s take a short break and let

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me look over my notes —

2
MR. BONNER: Okay.
3
MR. McGEE: — and see if I have anything
else.
5 MR. BONNER: Dan, are you going to have
questions?

7
MR. SIEGEL: Not sure.
8
MR. BONNER: Okay.
9
THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Okay. Going off the
record. The time on the monitor is 3:57 p.m.

11
(Whereupon, a break was taken.)
12
THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Coming back on the
record. The time on the monitor is 4:06. Please

begin.

BY MR. McGEE:

Q. Ms. Brown, you began working for Keith

Carson in September 2013?

A. September or October perhaps.

Q. Okay. And what is your relationship with

Supervisor Carson regarding your hours? Are you — you

work a 40-hour week, some abbreviated schedule or what?

A. I work at a 40-hour week, but not on regular

hours, 9:00 to 5:00, for example.

Q. Okay. Do you receive benefits for

working — working for Supervisor Carson?

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A. I have a salary, yes.

Q. Do you also receive holidays — so many

holidays per year?

A. Yes.

Q. So much sick leave per year?

A. Yes.

Q. And other usual benefits of county

employees?

A. Yes.
Q. Okay. How has your attendance record been

working for Supervisor Carson?

A. Generally speaking, I work all the time,

even on days that I’m not — Saturdays, but during that

period I had a lull in attendance.

Q. All right. Have you taken vacations since

you’ve been working for him?

A. No.

Q. You have not?

A. No.

Q. Have you taken any time off for sick leave

or medical purposes?

A. Yes.

Q. Had you taken off such time before October

of 2015?

25
MR. BONNER: You mean had she taken off sick

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leave time —

2
MR. McGEE: Yes, sick leave time.
3
MR. BONNER: — before the date of this
incident?

5
MR. McGEE: Yes.
6
THE WITNESS: Yes, I had taken off some sick
leave time.

BY MR. McGEE:

Q. Do you know how much time you had taken off
for sick leave during 2015?

A. 2015?

Q. Same year as this —

A. I know. I’m just trying to think. Maybe a

total of a couple of weeks. I don’t know.

Q. Couple of weeks?

A. Yes.

Q. Was any of the time that you took off in

2015 before October 30th for anything related to your

shoulder?

A. No.

Q. On October 30th of 2015 how many drinks did

you have?

A. One.

Q. And that was the drink that you had at

Everett & Jones?

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A. Yes.

Q. The Grey Goose vodka with ice?

A. That’s correct.

Q. And you only had one of those?

A. That’s correct.

Q. Okay. Do you ever drink more than one shot

of vodka in a day?

A. Yes.

Q. When?
A. When I go out sometimes with friends. It

depends on the — the circumstances.

Q. What’s the most vodka you’ve consumed in any

one day in the last five years?

14
MR. BONNER: Objection, that’s irrelevant.
15
Don’t answer that.
16
That invades her privacy. That is totally
irrelevant here. First of all, she had not even had

the drink before this whole issue erupted so there was

a time sequence, so it’s totally irrelevant. Move on

to something else. She has a right to privacy and her

private affairs are totally irrelevant here.

BY MR. McGEE:

Q. On the date of the incident at the

Waterfront Hotel had you been drinking vodka that day?

25
MR. BONNER: Objection, that’s been asked

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and answered. You’ve already asked that.
2 MR. McGEE: Are you instructing her not to
answer?
4 MR. BONNER: Yeah, I’m instructing her not
to repeat the answer.

6
MR. McGEE: Let me remind you —
7
MR. BONNER: Yeah.
8
MR. McGEE: — she talked about wine that
she drank that day. I’m asking her a totally different
question.
11 MR. BONNER: I understand. But she told you
she drank wine.
13 MR. McGEE: And you’re going to instruct her
not to answer as to whether she drank vodka that day?
15 MR. BONNER: You asked the question what she
had drank — what she had drunk, and she had told you

she had drunk wine.
18 MR. McGEE: Sorry. I’m asking a different
question.

20
MR. BONNER: Okay.
21
MR. McGEE: I just want to make sure —
22
MR. BONNER: That’s fine. You want to ask
her.

24
Did you drink vodka that day?
25
THE WITNESS: Are you —

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1
MR. BONNER: You can answer.
2
THE WITNESS: No.
3
MR. BONNER: Okay. Good. End of story.

BY MR. McGEE:

Q. On the day you were arrested for drunk

driving near the Radio Road at the Bay Bridge, had you

been drinking vodka that day?
8 MR. BONNER: I’m going to object. That’s
totally irrelevant.

10
You can answer if, if you’d like.
11
THE WITNESS: If I like? Yes, I had had a
drink, as I said to the police.
13 MR. BONNER: The question is did you — it’s
only one question. Did you drink vodka that day,

period.
16 THE WITNESS: I’m not sure. I told them I’d
something to drink at the restaurant with dinner.

BY MR. McGEE:

Q. And you’re just not sure whether it was

vodka or something else?

A. I’m not sure about that specific thing.
22 MR. McGEE: Okay. Now, I want to make sure
I’m clear regarding a prior instruction you gave

Ms. Brown not to answer a question whether she’s ever

been diagnosed with arthritis.

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1
MR. BONNER: Okay.
2
MR. McGEE: Because we will ask for a law

and motion ruling on that if you —

4
MR. BONNER: That’s fine.
5
MR. McGEE: Okay.
6
MR. BONNER: That’s fine.
7
MR. McGEE: Then I have no other questions
other than what may be necessary if we’re given

authorization to probe that area.

10
MR. BONNER: No problem.
11
MR. SIEGEL: I have a few questions. You
want to pass me your microphone.
13 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: I don’t think it will
reach. We might need to switch places if that’s okay.
15 MR. McGEE: Happy to do so. If you look at
my notes and find something I didn’t ask, feel free to

ask.

18
MR. SIEGEL: Thank you.
19
EXAMINATION BY MR. SIEGEL
BY MR. SIEGEL:

Q. All right. So I just hopefully have a few

minutes of questions.
23 So, Ms. Brown, you had mentioned earlier
that you had had an interchange with Desley Brooks

at — was it a City Council meeting where Occupy was

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being discussed?

A. Yes.

Q. And what’s your best recollection as to the

month and year of that meeting?

A. As I said, I thought it was 2011. That’s

the best I can do with it.

Q. Do you recall whether it was before or after

the police had cleared the Plaza in terms of the people

who were staying there?
A. I don’t recall.

Q. You don’t recall. Was that the first time

you had any conversation with Desley Brooks?

A. No.

Q. What’s your best recollection as to the

first time you had an interaction of any kind with

Desley Brooks?

A. As I mentioned, it was because of David

Hilliard. It was some time ago before that. I didn’t

live here so I didn’t have any reason, but I came here.

It could have been early 2000, something like this. I

don’t really remember because I can’t remember the

circumstances — I mean, I can’t remember the timing

because — but I remember the fact that, as I

indicated, Mr. Hilliard wanted to try — was looking

for a property. He mentioned, Oh, you know, Desley

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Brooks is helping me and at some point I met her during

that brief period of time.

Q. Okay. And was there anything unpleasant

about the interchange you had with her at that time?

A. No.

Q. Did you walk away from that exchange

thinking that Desley Brooks did not like you?

A. Oh, no.

Q. Okay. What’s your recollection as to the
next time you had any interaction with her?

A. The meeting around Occupy.

Q. And was that a City Council meeting?

A. Yes.

Q. And you said she spoke to you at that

meeting?

A. She asked me openly what was I doing with

all those white people.

Q. Okay. When you say “openly,” was she

sitting at the dais in City Hall?

A. Yes.

Q. And she asked you this over the — over the

microphone?

A. Yes.

Q. And what were you doing at the time she

asked you this question?

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A. I was there as one of the speakers for the

Occupy group that was there to speak about my

recollection is an ordinance that was being proposed to

bring in more police to make sure the Port of Oakland

did not get shut down — to prevent the shutdown of the

Port of Oakland that apparently had just occurred. I

cannot tell you the date, but that’s my recollection.

Q. Okay. And did she interrupt your speaking

to the Council or was it after you finished speaking?
A. I don’t think she interrupted me. She made

a comment prior to my speaking.

Q. Prior to your speaking?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. So the clerk called your name and you

went up to the microphone, and she made a comment?

A. I don’t know that the clerk was calling

names. It was a pretty wild moment and people were

just arbitrarily stepping up, and I was one of the

people that stepped up. So I’m not sure we had the

usual orderly cards that were filled out and so forth.

People were just passing the mic and doing whatever

they felt like doing almost.

Q. Did someone pass the mic to you?

A. Well, they didn’t pass me the mic. The mic

was stationary.

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Q. So you went up to the mic?

A. Yes.

Q. And before you could start speaking,

Ms. Brooks made this comment to you, what are you doing

with all those white people?

A. Yes.

Q. And what did you say?

A. My answer was that they was the only ones

doing anything and that everyone on the Council — she
couldn’t question me anymore than anyone else on the

Council, you know, who were — all people of color were

woman because all of them had gotten their positions

through the blood of the Black Panther Party.

Q. So you brought up the Black Panther Party?

A. Yes.

Q. And what did she say to you?

A. I don’t recall her saying anything else.

Q. Were there a lot of people at that Council

meeting?

A. Yes.

Q. Was the chambers full?

A. To the rafters I think.

Q. Okay. Were — were you the only

African-American person there?

A. No. Ms. Brooks was there.

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Q. Were there any other African-American

persons who addressed the Council?

A. I’m sure.

Q. Okay. Do you recall whether Ms. Brooks said

anything to any of them?

A. I don’t.

Q. I assume that after you had this interchange

with Ms. Brooks about what you were doing with white

people, you continued with whatever remarks you were
going to make that evening?

A. I did.

Q. And then what happened?

A. Nothing that I can recall in terms of

Ms. Brooks. People made their statements. We all went

home. The ordinance was not passed because of a vote

of the Council.

Q. Okay. At the time of this incident were you

working with UHW?

A. Oh, yes.

Q. Okay. And was this incident at the Council

before or after the incident that occurred in Luka’s

Taproom that you were asked about earlier?

A. I would say before. Well before.

Q. Was the event at Luka’s Taproom after the

NLRB had completed its counting of the ballots in the

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election?

A. I can’t say.

Q. Who is the person you were with at Luka’s

that night?

A. A young man named Jan. Jan something. I

cannot recall his last name. All of a sudden I’m blank

on his last name. It’s a D. Something with a D.

Q. Jan D?

A. With something with a D.
Q. And was he also staff of UHW?

A. Communications.

Q. Okay. And do you know — you were — you

were temporary staff for UHW, correct?

A. No. At that time I was permanent staff.

Q. You’d become permanent. Okay. And how long

did you work with UHW?

A. From 2010 to 2013.

Q. Why did you leave that job?

A. They — we had a disagreement about my — my

representation of some of our workers.

Q. Okay. What was the disagreement?

A. They felt that there was a labor management

agreement that I was overstepping my hand on behalf of

the — of the worker and that I didn’t get that Kaiser

was also a partner and that this was a partnership and

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not, you know, oppositional.

Q. So they asked you to leave?

A. Yes.

Q. Who was it who asked you to leave?

A. One person was Rachel — Rachel someone. I

can’t remember. I’m sorry, I’m not remembering

people’s last names all of a sudden. And the young —

the man who was the head of the union — not the head.

That was Dave Regan. But someone who was sort of the
chief of staff, that was his title.

Q. And did the event at Luka’s — did you know

the person who came up to you and made the comment to

you about being ashamed or whatever it was?

A. A scab. No, I did not know her.

Q. Had you seen that person before?

A. No.

Q. Do you know if she was a Kaiser employee?

A. Oh, no, she was not.

Q. Do you know if she was an NUHW staff person?

A. That was my impression. Not necessarily

staff, but a supporter.

Q. Can you give us a physical description of

her?

A. She was a relatively young white woman of

about five-two, small with brownish hair.

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Q. Thin build? Heavy build? Medium build?

A. She was small, thin. Not fat, not — no,

she was probably thin.

Q. Did she indicate to you how she knew who you

were?

A. Well, no, but that night two other people

had just come up to me and said they had read my book,

so I thought she was the third person that was saying

“Hi, aren’t you Elaine Brown?” I had no idea how she
knew who I was.

Q. So between the date of the City Council

meeting that you’ve described and the incident that

underlies this case on October 30, 2015, had you had

any other conversations with Desley Brooks?

A. Yes.

Q. Approximately how many?

A. Who can say? I mentioned some and there was

some conversation, as I mentioned, around the illness

that ended in death of our mutual friend Alice

Spearman.

Q. In any of those communications that you had

with Desley Brooks between the City Council meeting in

2011 and the event on October 30, 2015, were there any

disagreements between you?

A. I would say so.

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Q. And what do you recall of those

disagreements?

A. They were political in nature.

Q. Okay. And can you describe them a little

bit for us?

A. Well, as I said, she seemed to be taking a

position on coal, the transport of coal. She seemed to

be undermining the issues with the — the women’s group

that I was a part of to the point where there was
discussion about everybody signing a confidentiality

agreement because of her behavior and — which she

refused to do. And so, I mean, there was — we don’t

talk, so there’s not going to be a lot of did we talk

about this or that because I don’t — we don’t talk.

The only one-on-one conversation that I can recall is

Alice Spearman and saying hello in the hallway here at

City Hall.

Q. Okay. On the coal issue do you recall

having any one-on-one conversations with Ms. Brooks

about the coal issue?

A. Not other than the accusation I made that

day on the 30th of October.

Q. Okay. And do you recall when the resolution

on coal came up before the Oakland City Council?

A. Well, there were many meetings, so I don’t

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know what you mean specifically. There were a lot of

meetings around coal.
3 MR. BONNER: He just wants to know if you
recall the date. That’s yes or no.
5 THE WITNESS: No.
BY MR. SIEGEL:

Q. Do you recall at some point the City Council

passed a resolution or ordinance or something saying

that it did not want coal in Oakland?
A. Yes.

Q. And do you recall when that occurred?

A. 2016. I don’t know.

Q. Okay. But it’s your recollection that the

coal issue was a live issue in terms of City Council

discussions prior to October 30, 2015?

A. I don’t know how you’re characterizing live

issue, so I’m not sure. Yes, it was certainly being

discussed by then.

Q. And you recall it being discussed at City

Council meetings?

A. Oh, absolutely.

Q. And you recall Ms. Brooks saying that she

was in favor of coal?

A. No.

Q. No?

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A. No, I do not recall her saying that.

Q. Okay. Well, it seems from the way you’ve

reported on what occurred on October 30, 2015 that as

of that date you believed that Ms. Brooks supported the

idea of transporting coal through Oakland; is that

right?

A. That’s correct.

Q. And what was it that led you to believe

prior to October 30, 2015 that she supported the
transport of coal in Oakland?

A. She was not opposed to it; whereas, other

Council members were already clearly opposed to it and

taking positions, including the Mayor. She was — she

reached a point of being so brutal in her interrogation

of some of the people opposing coal that several people

had to get up and ask her was she cross-examining them.

They used their time to actually address that. She

had — there were several ministers who were supporting

coal, still are, who were friendly with her. And in

general everyone who was opposing coal believed that

she would be a vote — or that she would support the

coal.

Q. Okay. And that’s why you made the comments

about coal at the event on October 30?

A. Yes.

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Q. Okay. But in terms of interactions

one-on-one between you and Ms. Brooks, you’ve mentioned

some having to do with the demise of Alice Spearman.

You mentioned the incident at the City Council meeting

in 2011. Do you have any recollection of any other

situations in which you and she had actually had a

conversation prior to October 30, 2015?

A. Yes. I mentioned the women’s group.

Q. So there were conversations between the two
of you at the women’s group?

A. Not just between the two of us, but there

was a — there was a — there was dialogue that was

oppositional.

Q. Okay. And do you recall the subject of that

dialogue?

A. Yes. It was the train station that I

mentioned earlier.

Q. The Wood Street station?

A. Wood Street.

Q. Okay. And the two of you disagreed on that?

A. No. She merely asserted that I didn’t know

what I was talking about and that nobody should believe

me.

Q. Okay. And did she explain why she said

that?

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A. She had some what I considered rather arcane

statement about I didn’t understand what the ownership

policies were or what had to happen or something that

had to do with City ordinances, something to this

effect, that I felt was — was meaningless.

Q. Okay. And when she made that comment, what

did you say?

A. I said, Don’t sit here and tell these people

I’m not telling the truth because you’re wrong, I do
know what I’m talking about.

Q. I mean, you would agree that as a person

your habit and custom is to not suffer fools silently;

is that a fair characterization?
14 MR. BONNER: Do you understand what he’s
referring to?
16 THE WITNESS: Are you asking me about my
whole life’s character?
18 MR. BONNER: No. No. No. He’s citing a
common kind of statement, suffering fools lightly.

Have you heard that phrase before?

21
THE WITNESS: I have.
22
MR. BONNER: Okay. Do you have any
understanding what he’s intending by the phrase?

24
THE WITNESS: No.
25
MR. BONNER: Okay. Wait for —

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BY MR. SIEGEL:

Q. Let me break it down. I’m not trying to be

confusing here. Isn’t it true that it’s your practice

when you feel that someone has insulted you to speak

back to them?

A. It’s my practice —

Q. Yeah.

A. — when someone has insulted me? I would

say that it depends on many circumstances as to what I
would do.

Q. Okay. Would you say that it’s your practice

or custom to suffer silently when you feel that people

are insulting you?
14 MR. BONNER: It lacks foundation that she
has any such practice or custom.

16
Do you have an answer for that?
17
THE WITNESS: I’m not clear about that
question.
19 MR. BONNER: Okay. You’ve answered it.
BY MR. SIEGEL:

Q. Okay. In your experience let’s just say

over the last five years — we don’t have to go through

your whole life — but when you hear something that you

feel to be disrespectful to you, isn’t it true that

it’s your practice to speak up and let people know that

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you don’t like what’s being said?
2 MR. BONNER: And that’s asked and answered.
She just indicated that it depends on the circumstances

and it’s no one response. So that’s —
5 MR. SIEGEL: Okay. Let’s just try to stick
with objections.
7 MR. BONNER: The objection is asked and
answered, but I want you to know why I’m objecting to

the same question again.
BY MR. SIEGEL:

Q. Okay. You can answer.
12 MR. BONNER: Well, she can’t because she’s
already answered it, so we don’t need to answer it

again. It’s been answered.
15 MR. SIEGEL: You know, that’s not a basis
under the law to instruct the witness not to answer.
17 MR. BONNER: Neither is it a basis under the
law to keep asking the same question over and over

again.

20
MR. SIEGEL: I haven’t answering it —
21
MR. BONNER: Huh?
22
MR. SIEGEL: I haven’t kept asking the same
question. I have rephrased it from the first time I

asked it, and I’m entitled to an answer.

25
MR. BONNER: Okay. Do you have any answer

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different than the one you’ve already given to this

question?
3 THE WITNESS: Not as to personal insults,
no.
5 MR. BONNER: Okay.
BY MR. SIEGEL:

Q. Okay. On October 30, 2015 did you have any

physical touching of Ms. Brooks either by yourself or

by her before where as you’ve described she hit you in
the chest with both hands?

A. No.

Q. Did you ever point your finger at her?

A. I doubt it.

Q. You didn’t point — recall point —

A. Because I don’t point my fingers.

Q. Okay. You — so you never touched her

indicating that you were unhappy with some of the

things that she was saying?

A. No.

Q. Okay. You didn’t make the comment about not

wanting to hear this bullshit again; is that right?

A. That’s correct.

Q. Okay. And what do you recall that

Ms. Brooks said in response to that?

A. “The only bullshit here is you.”

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Q. And what was your response to that?

A. “Please stop it.” I kept moving.

Q. Okay. When you heard her say “The only

bullshit here is you,” did that make you angry?

A. No. I was already angry.

Q. Okay. So you were angry starting when?

A. I was angry about her political statement

that she was using her office to try and take down a

project that I felt was important for the black
community. That is the source and only source.

Q. Okay. Did you think that her statement that

she wanted to stop this project that you felt was

important to the black community was made to spite you

personally?

A. No.

Q. So do you think it was then just a — just a

disagreement that you had with her?

A. No.

Q. Okay. Then what did you think?

A. I thought that she was in what I considered

typically using her power to undermine something that

she didn’t particularly care about or had no hand in.

Q. Okay. Had you had any interaction with her

prior to October 30, 2015 regarding the particular NOFA

for which your group submitted an application on that

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date?

A. No.

Q. Had you heard her say anything regarding her

opinions about that NOFA?

A. No.

Q. Prior to October 30, 2015 had there been any

occasion in which you felt that she was seeking to harm

you as an individual?

A. No.
Q. Prior to October 30, 2015 did you think that

she had some kind of grudge against you or — yeah, a

grudge against you?

A. A grudge, no.

Q. Okay. So would you agree that before that

interaction on October 30, 2015 the differences that

you and Ms. Brooks had had not become personal between

you?

A. I don’t agree.

Q. So you think they had become personal?

A. Not on my part.

Q. You thought it become personal on her part?

A. Yes.

Q. And why did you think that?

A. Because, as I said, in the meeting with the

women she took umbrage and made it very personal to me.

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I’ve seen her behave in ways or plot in ways when Lynn

Turner is around. For example, I’ve seen her show

signs that she just didn’t like me in the mix, so to

speak. This is my impression. There was no

manifestation of it, other than maybe facial

expressions and, you know, as people do we’re human

beings we look at each other and we assume things about

each other.

Q. Okay. Did you know that she was also a
friend of Lynn Turner’s?

A. Oh, I know that very well.

Q. Okay. So did you think that she was

competitive with you in terms of friendship with Lynn

Turner?

A. That’s a possibility.

Q. Did you think that on October 30, 2015?

A. Not necessarily.

Q. This morning you were asked about the DUI

arrest that occurred near the Bay Bridge near the Radio

Station?

A. Radio Road.

Q. Radio Road. Right. Is that your only DUI

arrest?

A. Yes.

Q. Okay. Have you ever had any other arrests

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relating to use of alcohol?

2
MR. BONNER: Objection.
3
Don’t answer that. She’s not going to
answer that. It’s an improper question.

5
MR. SIEGEL: Well —
6
MR. BONNER: She’s not going to answer,
Counsel. Move on. She’s told you the arrests she had.

No other arrests.

9
MR. SIEGEL: No other DUI arrest.
10
MR. BONNER: Yeah. Improper question
leading to general arrests.

12
MR. SIEGEL: Okay.
13
MR. BONNER: Has she ever been convicted —
arrested for a felony, you can ask her that —

15
MR. SIEGEL: No. No. No.
16
MR. BONNER: — convicted of a felony but
that’s —
18 MR. SIEGEL: Excuse me. Charles, this case
at least from the defense point of view has a lot to do

with alcohol, as you know.
21 MR. BONNER: Yeah, that’s just the defense
position. It happens to be a wrongful position.
23 MR. SIEGEL: Whether it’s wrongful or not,
you know that’s the position —
25 MR. BONNER: I understand.

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1 MR. SIEGEL: — and we have a right to
conduct discovery regarding that.

3
MR. BONNER: And — and you just did.
4
MR. SIEGEL: My question I just want to say
it for the record, and if you’re going to interrupt or

obstruct the deposition, you can do that. But the

question was asking Ms. Brown whether in addition to

the one DUI arrest whether she had suffered any other

arrests regarding alcohol consumption, whether it’s
intoxicated in public, disorderly conduct or anything

of that nature.
12 MR. BONNER: And she’s answered that she’s
only had one DUI arrest, period. And that’s the only

question she’s going to ask — answer.
15 MR. SIEGEL: Okay. Well, I think that’s
improper.

17
MR. BONNER: I understand.
18
MR. SIEGEL: I got it.
19
MR. BONNER: We disagree.
20
MR. SIEGEL: Okay. I have no further
questions. Thank you.

22
MR. BONNER: Okay.
23
THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Okay. Anybody else?
Should we go off the record?
25 MR. SIEGEL: Anything else?

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1 MR. McGEE: The only question I have is
whether you’ll stipulate to Ms. Brown undergoing an

IME.

4
MR. BONNER: Sure. Sure.
5
THE WITNESS: What is it?
6
MR. BONNER: Just a medical examination.
7
She’ll go. It’s no problem.
8
THE WITNESS: What’s —
9
MR. BONNER: I’ll explain it. It stands for
independent. It’s anything but independent, but that’s

okay. It’s affectionately referred to as an

independent medical examination.
13 THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Okay. Shall we go off
the record?

15
MR. BONNER: Yeah.
16
THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Okay. This concludes
video three of the deposition of Elaine Brown. Going

off — sorry.
19 MR. BONNER: And just for the record, the
stipulation for the IME, of course, is for those areas

of her body that was injured in this incident. Yes.

That’s so stipulated?

23
MR. McGEE: Okay.
24
MR. BONNER: Okay.
25
THE VIDEOGRAPHER: Okay. This concludes

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video number three of the deposition of Elaine Brown.

Going off the record. The time on the monitor is 4:38

p.m.
4 (The deposition proceedings were adjourned
at 4:38 p.m.)

6

__________________________
7
Signature of Witness

8
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REPORTER CERTIFICATE

I, Deanne M. Goyke, hereby certify that the
witness in the foregoing deposition was by me placed

under oath to testify to the truth, the whole truth and

nothing but the truth in the within-entitled cause;

that said deposition was taken at the time and place
therein named; that the testimony of said witness was

reported by me, a Certified Shorthand Reporter and a

disinterested person, and thereafter transcribed into

typewriting.
14 And I further certify that I am not of
counsel or attorney for either or any of the parties to

said deposition, nor in any way interested in the

outcome of the cause named in said caption.

18

19
In Witness Whereof, I Have
20
Hereunto Set My Hand This
21
12th day of February 2017.
22
____________________________

Deanne M. Goyke
23
Certified Shorthand Reporter

State of California
24
License No. 11413
25

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Pizzotti & Jarnagin
925-416-1800

PIZZOTTI & JARNAGIN CERTIFIED SHORTHAND REPORTERS 5776 STONERIDGE MALL ROAD, SUITE 298
2 PLEASANTON, CA 94588
(925) 416-1800
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Elaine Brown
c/o Charles A. Bonner, Esq.

475 Gate Five Road, #212
Sausalito, California 94965

Re: Brown vs. City of Oakland

Dear Ms. Brown:

9 This is to inform you that your deposition conducted on Wednesday, February 1, 2017, has been

transcribed into booklet form. You have the right to review and sign the transcript of your testimony to
insure that it is true and correct. If you wish to avail yourself of this opportunity, it is necessary
that you follow the instructions below. If you do not sign your deposition or forward a letter of corrections

and/or changes to my office within the time period prescribed below, please be advised that it may be used
at the time of trial with the same force and effect as
though it had been signed.
15
The original transcript of your deposition
shall be held in our offices for your review for not more than 30 days. It would be best to call our office
before your arrival so that the transcript can be
readily available.
18
If you should have any questions regarding
this information, please do telephone our staff to
assist you.
20
Very Truly Yours,
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Certified Shorthand Reporter
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CC: All Counsel

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DEPOSITION OF ELAINE BROWN

Brown vs. City of Oakland Elaine Brown
203

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